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Locked on 09/27/2014 9:10:14 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Godwin’s Law |
Posted on 09/11/2014 11:19:06 AM PDT by Jan_Sobieski
I don't need to convert to His church. I AM His church. I became part of it when I was born again by His Spirit.
Drinking blood is forbidden by Scripture and Jesus could not have drank it or commanded others to without becoming a lawbreaker and sinning.
Did Jesus drink His own blood at the Last Supper? Then why did HE call it*the fruit of the vine*?
And here it is. The radical individualism so prevalent in protestant thought.
And what of it? Is group mentality better?
God wants children, not drones.
Yes my faith is a radical faith. I'm totally sold out to the One who have bought me with His blood.
And yes, it's individual. Relationships are like that. Nobody has group relationships with people. It's always individual.,P> Even Paul tells us that.
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
Even Jesus takes us on a one on one basis.
John 3:16-18 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Revelation 22:17 The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.
Religious and spiritual predisposition conflated with secular political ideology.
Wishful thinking......
Because by coming and living a fully human, being tempted in every way just as we are and yet remaining without sin, He was able to conquer sin and thereby death.
There's a difference between being an ambassador for Christ and being a mediator or intermediary.
There is only ONE mediator between God and man.
1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. I need a mediator between me and God and that is Jesus.
I DON'T need a mediator between me and Jesus as HE is my great high priest. He is in heaven at the right hand of God making intercession for me.
Romans 8:34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
Hebrews 7:22-28 This makes Jesus the guarantor of a better covenant.
The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office, but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues forever. Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.
For it was indeed fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, unstained, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens. He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself. For the law appoints men in their weakness as high priests, but the word of the oath, which came later than the law, appoints a Son who has been made perfect forever.
That's right. I told you they are not relevant to the subject being discussed.
So inclusive...
Mark 9:39-41
But Jesus said, "Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me.
"For he who is not against us is for us.
"For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as followers of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward.
If you've been baptized and believe that Christ is your Savior, than you are united to the Catholic Church, which is the Body of Christ, but imperfectly.
“We wouldn’t have Scriptures without the Holy Spirit.”
True, but it was the early Church, the early fathers of the Church who discerned the voice of the Holy Spirit and settled on the canon of the Bible. There were 50 Gospels floating around during the first centuries of Christendom. Believers didn’t go to their rooms and based upon their individual interpretations of Scripture, throughout 46 books as not totally free of error. They discerned the voice of the Spirit together, as a Church.
“Catholics should at least get into a Southern Baptist Sunday School”
I like the Southern Baptists for their generally conservative views of the Scriptures which makes them good allies in the culture war. But there was no Southern Baptist Church until a few centuries ago.
“Catholics back then did not want it in the hands of ordinary people which is very wrong”
Before the printing press, Bibles had to be written out by hand. Do you know how long it took to write one Bible? Of course the Church had the few Bibles, they didn’t want them destroyed.
“We would still have it.”
How would we have the four Gospels, edited down from 50, and the 72 (or 66) books of the New Testament, edited down from about 400, if the early Church did not gather together in prayer and ask the Holy Spirit to guide them to the canon of the Bible?
They murdered people to make sure the ordinary people could not have their own Bible. That is wrong. They did not want people to realize the lies they were being told. When I was doing research, people were burned to death, were beheaded, etc. Don’t you find that disgusting? I do.
COUNCIL OF TOULOUSE - 1229 A.D Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.
Source: Heresy and Authority in Medieval Europe, Edited with an introduction by Edward Peters, Scolar Press, London, copyright 1980 by Edward Peters, ISBN 0-85967-621-8, pp. 194-195, citing S. R. Maitland, Facts and Documents [illustrative of the history, doctrine and rites, of the ancient Albigenses & Waldenses], London, Rivington, 1832, pp. 192-194.
The Council of Tarragona of 1234, in its second canon:
“No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned lest, be he a cleric or a layman, he be suspected until he is cleared of all suspicion.” (-D. Lortsch, Historie de la Bible en France, 1910, p.14.)
Suspicion?! Suspicion of what or for what?
There's not one indicator that the reason for not owning Scripture was out of concern for it's safe keeping or it's rarity.
“Satan adores Maryolatry.”
“She (Mary) is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God ... It is certain that Mary is the is the Mother of the real and true God. ... It is an article of faith that Mary is the Mother of The Lord and still Virgin.” - Martin Luther (1483 -1546)
“Elizabeth called Mary Mother of The Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God.” - John Calvin (1509 - 1564)
“It was given to her (Mary) what belongs to no creature, that in the flesh she should bring forth the Son of a God. ... I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary. ... The more the honor and love of Christ increases among men, so much the esteem and honor given to Mary should grow.” - Ulrich Zwingli (1484 -1531)
Not that I’m accusing Calvin, Luther, and Zwingli of being maryolaters, as you say, but their love and respect for the dignity God gave her were profound. I’m with them on that.
It was wrong when Catholics murdered people and it was wrong when Protestants murdered people.
Thanks. I do not understand why people find that so hard to understand. I loved history in school and still do especially from a genealogy pov. It was fascinating to learn history when ancestors lived it. I kinda learned more about the plague than I really wanted to. Whole towns died and no one was left to bury them.
“There’s not one indicator that the reason for not owning Scripture was out of concern for it’s safe keeping or it’s rarity.”
No indicator from whom, the sources you are reading? Do you know it would sometimes take a monk 30 years to write a Bible with the beautiful artistic script for its use in churches? Do you know monks often only completed 1 or 2 Bibles by hand in a lifetime? How can the reality of the world before about 1500 and the invention of the printing press be ignored?
Whatever councils said about the ownership of Bibles, few had Bibles because they were so exceedingly rare.
I’ve sometimes heard said that we don’t and didn’t need a church because the Holy Spirit would lead believers to truth without the Church. This ignores how difficult discernment is. The world, our own flesh, the devil, who often acts as an angel of light, are all competing with the voice of the Spirit.
The following is a true exchange witnessed by a third party:
Believer 1:”The Spirit told me He wants you to give me your (large) boat for ministry purposes.”
Believer 2:”Well, when He tells me the same thing, I’ll give it to you.”
Wait....what? Why would they need prohibit owning books. Catholics tell us all the time that they didn't have them anyway until after the printing press was invented. Silly popes!
“No one in the first centuries ever believed Mary was sinless”
Yes they did.
“Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom Grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin.” - St.Ambrose (c.340-397)
“No one ever believed in a pope”
One early dispute in the Church took place when John was still alive. They asked him to settle the dispute. He told them to go to the fourth pope, Pope Clement I in Rome. Clement ruled and the matter was settled.
That pope was wrong then because even Mary admitted she needed a Savior. The Bible says, “all have sinned....”
Likely so, but it is like relegating all liberal RCs to be CINO as needed, then asserting you are still Catholic due to the "indelible" mark her sprinkling left on your soul as an infant.
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