The Hail Mary of a Protestant

http://www.abouttherosary.com ^ | September 3, 2014 | Robbe Lyn Sebesta

[boatbums]

The Septuagint contains the deuterocanonical books of the Catholic canon of the Old Testament, or those books termed "apocryphal" by Protestants.

That was a Greek translation of the Old Testament which also included fifteen other books that got tacked onto it. They were NEVER considered inspired by God, were NEVER part of the Jewish "oracles of God" and even Jerome - who translated the OT into Latin - agreed they were separate. Is it your contention that simply appearing in the Septuagint automatically qualified a book as Divinely-inspired sacred Scripture???

[WVKayaker]

Narses, we know the "one trick pony", as all we see posts making puerile attempts at getting attention to the poster with cutesy cartoons and stolen ideas. But, we also know how much it always fails...

Some day, maybe you can put together an actual refutation, but we also know that one cannot refute the truth...

John 16: 12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

[Steelfish]

It’s belief based on reason. We are not Islamacists.

By your lights, from St. Augustine to St. Thomas Aquinas (after whom colleges and universities have been named all over the world) to Benedict XVI (referred to as the “theological Einstein of our times”) and to all the leading Protestant/Anglican/Episcopal/Lutheran scholars from Richard Neuhaus to Sweden’s leading Protestant theologian, prominent Christian leader Ulf Ekman to Dr Anders ( see. Dr. Anders’ Website www.calvin2catholic.com) to Cardinal Newman are ALL mistaken.

So why don’t you write a book and tell us the “Iskool” teaching on the Bible? And while you are at it pray tell us why these folks got it wrong? And why every Foursquare Church corner street pastor from Rev. Jeremiah Wright to Rev. Bill Graham is right, wrong, or half-way right and wrong.

[Springfield Reformer]

That was a Greek translation of the Old Testament which also included fifteen other books that got tacked onto it. They were NEVER considered inspired by God, were NEVER part of the Jewish "oracles of God" and even Jerome - who translated the OT into Latin - agreed they were separate. Is it your contention that simply appearing in the Septuagint automatically qualified a book as Divinely-inspired sacred Scripture???

All true.  But there's even more to the story.  STA, ask yourself this question:  Why are none of those deuterocanonicals referenced in any discernible way in the New Testament text?  Could it be they weren't even part of the Septuagint as used by the New Testament writers?   Yes, it could be, because as it turns out, the codices that DO have those additional books were the NOT the product of the Jewish magisterium (and don't even get me started on the non-event in Jamnia), but were 4th-5th Century products of Christian scholarship. See Roger Beckwith here (also see his book, "The Old Testament Canon of the New Testament Church: and its Background in Early Judaism"):

http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/evangel/04-1_012.pdf

So I ask you again, STA, which Bible did Jesus use? The pre-Jamnia version (90 AD), with no deuterocanonicals, arrived at by consensus of the faithful and NOT by councils, or the codices that didn't exist till roughly 400 years later?  

Peace,

SR

[Springfield Reformer]

A superior education is great for human endeavors. But what did Jesus say about the most important education one can receive?

Mat 11:25-26  At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.  (26)  Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

When God is done with all this, not one human being is going to have bragging rights about anything but the plain old Gospel.  Human pride, especially of those the world recognizes for their brilliance, will be burnt to a cinder. Nothing left of it. Nothing.

So yes, all your scholars CAN be wrong, and that silly old street preacher right.  Why?  Not because the street preacher is any better than your scholar.  Not at all.  It's just that God's designed this Gospel, on purpose, to trip up the self-wise, those who rest in words of human wisdom, and not in the power of God:

1Co 1:17-21  For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.  (18)  For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.  (19)  For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.  (20)  Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?  (21)  For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Peace,

SR

[metmom]

We shouldn't reject Sacred Tradition, but rather traditions of men, like "sola scriptura," which isn't found in Scripture or Tradition, and which leads people into errors like the rejection of Sacred Tradition.

*sacred tradition* is a construct of man to excuse, justify, and rationalize, putting the traditions of men on the same level as Scripture.

The NT didn't rely on *sacred tradition* about Jesus. They relied on Scripture, which they had in those days as well.

[metmom]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is one of the most beautiful documents ever written. It not only tells you how to be a devout Catholic, but tells you how to live the good life and be a happy, well adjusted member of society.

Sure it is...../s

And the Ten Commandments and the Law, not to mention the Beatitudes. Heck, they're all just chopped liver in comparison.

The very words of God Himself couldn't do enough so the RCC decided that it had to add its own two cents in as well.

Just like Catholics do with adding their works to the finished work of Christ on the cross.

What hubris.

[Prince of Space]

If Catholicism is based on “made-up stories,” then so is Christianity. Your bible is based on our bible. Or do you honestly believe only your version is real?

[metmom]

Yes, bishops are sinners. Some are grave sinners. Jesus chose Judas to be an Apostle... and bishop.

That's pretty poor rationalization to excuse the unconscionable behavior of such hedonistic men.

As a matter of fact, it's just disgusting the way it's done and how often it's done.

While it's true that all men are sinners, that does not excuse the defiantly sinful life those men led. They never even tried to live a holy life. It simply paints them as poor victims of their fleshly nature, men who couldn't help themselves because, after all, *they're just sinners*.

It's also a complete denial of the power of the Holy Spirit to overcome sinful tendencies.

There's no room for *grave sinners* in leadership within the church and there's no excuse for it. God has made it more than clear.

They were wrong for living like that and any Catholic who even thinks to excuse or defend it is wrong as well and is complicit by they're excusing it away.

Here's some more Scripture to chew on, instead of justifying the RCC's lack of dealing with blatant sin in its leadership.

Qualifications for elder and deacon.

1 Corinthians 5:1-13 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.

For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

That precludes taking communion with someone like that.

2 John 1:4-11 I rejoiced greatly to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as we were commanded by the Father. And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another. And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it. For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

Titus 1:5-16 This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you— if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach. One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth. To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled. They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

1 Timothy 3:1-13 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain. They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things. Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well. For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

[metmom]

Catholicism is the fullness of the Christian faith. You have to be a tough, dedicated person to be a devout Catholic. It’s not for sissies, never has been. It takes total, complete dedication to be a practicing Catholic that lives their faith. Not all have all the capability to totally give their life to Christ. And that is the reason Catholics fall away from the faith. It’s too hard for them. They wanted to do it their way instead of God’s way.

Yup, being in bondage is like that.

Jesus told us that His yoke was easy and His burden light and that the truth would set us free.

He came that we might have LIFE and life more abundant.

God's way is freedom in Christ, who gives us rest for our souls, and doesn't sell us into the bondage of works.

It leaves no room for bragging rights about what a tough guy the dedicated Catholic is.

I'm sure God is so impressed with the dedicated Catholic.

It's too bad that those dedicated Catholics weren't as dedicated to Christ instead of their religious system that they call a church.

[metmom]

Well said.

[metmom]

Wikipedia is light years ahead of inane cartoons.

[metmom]

Why modern science was born in spite of the Catholic Church

There, fixed it.

No institution has done more to shape Western civilization than the two-thousand-year-old Catholic Church—and in ways that many of us have forgotten or never known. How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization is essential reading for recovering this lost truth.

Yeah, who needs that Jesus guy anyway.

Just say *Thanks Catholic church.* /s

[metmom]

This is the curse as well as the rot of modern Protestantism that leading Protestant theologians from Protestant colleges and university both in the US and abroad have jumped ship and converted to Catholicism, I trust they know far more than you and I.

And where should they turn? To CATHOLIC universities and colleges?

Really?

Have you been keeping up with THEIR antics lately?

[metmom]

As always, the problem isn't education...The problem is belief...

Very well said for all those who like to appeal to their intellectual prowess.

[metmom]

I hate to say it, but I think Catholics are some of the most gullible of all religious groups. Put anything to do with Mary in it and they'll swallow it hook, line and sinker!

It's like Jesus is just a window dressing to them.

[metmom]

And why do you denigrate "precious tradition," especially when Scripture commends Sacred Tradition?

"So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter." --St. Paul

Well, here, you have a shot at it.

Nobody else has taken on these questions.

Just what are those traditions Paul was referring to that he handed down that we are to keep that were not included in Scripture?

How do you know?

How do you know they’re from the apostles, Paul in particular?

How do you know they’ve been passed down faithfully?

What is your source for verifying all of the above?

Please provide the sources for verification purposes.

[metmom]

Preach it, brother!!!!!

[infool7]

"Which is 360 degrees opposite to what God wants.”

Sounds like an Euclidean slip to me?

[Elsie]

Yes, bishops are sinners. Some are grave sinners.

Popes!!!

Oh that you guys were so dismissive of LUTHER's sins!