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To: Mrs. Don-o; LearsFool
Yes, the Scriptures do speak of themselves as sufficient. However, it is somewhat problematic to substitute the term "Bible" for "Scripture" in such a statement, because this sufficiency is bound up more in what Scripture is by it's nature as theopneustos, "God-breathed" writing, than in the development of the Biblical canon at any given moment of history.

Even more problematic is when this sufficiency is taken beyond the limits of its stated purpose. We who believe in Sola Scriptura do not propose that all knowledge is bound up in Scripture.  Only that knowledge which is sufficient to the purpose of knowing Christ and pleasing God. Paul covers both of these in 1Timothy 3:14-17:

(14) But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

(15) And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

(16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

(17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Now it's true that Paul wants Timothy to remember what he learned, presumably from Paul. However, please note that the passage does NOT suggest that Paul taught anything not contained in the Scriptures.  In fact, the opposite is inferred, because Paul is telling Timothy to continue in the faith because he has been assured of the truth, both because he heard it straight from Paul, and because he has known the Scriptures from childhood, which Scriptures would confirm to Timothy the truthfulness of the Gospel Paul preached.

Note carefully how he frames it: "thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation."  The word “able” here means “power,” (dunamena) and describes Scripture as having the power to make Timothy wise (sophisai) unto (up to the level of) (eis), salvation (soterian) which is by faith in Jesus Christ. He doesn't say Scripture can get Timothy partway there, but some extra oral tidbits are necessary to complete the journey. No, he says Timothy can be made wise all the way up to salvation through the Scriptures. They have that power:
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick [old English “alive”], and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
But how do mere words on a page have such power? Paul recognizes and addresses that natural question. The answer? Scripture is God-breathed (theo-pneustos). And he doesn't stop there. He keeps augmenting this power of God-breathed Scripture. Not only can it lead to your salvation, Timothy, but it's profitability extends even further. How far? To the point of making the man of God "perfect" (artios) in the sense of complete or mature.  How complete? Absolutely complete preparation for any and all good works.  Hence the sufficiency of the means, Scripture, may be judged by the completeness of the result it has the power to produce, a person totally equipped to please God and enjoy Him forever.

BTW, the two terms are related to each other. "thoroughly furnished" (exartizo) is an amplification, a doubling down of "complete" (artios).  It's clear from this that he doesn't want Timothy to miss the point that because he has the God-breathed Scriptures, he has what he needs both for salvation and for living a life pleasing to God.  It would be laughably incongruous for Paul to be making the point with such vigor, only to leave out all the other stuff Timothy also needed, some unquantifiable body of oral tradition that leaks out every few centuries with some new indispensable dogma. Paul here has drawn a line around Scripture and dared anything else to even pretend to be its equal for the purpose of leading souls to salvation in Christ and governing their walk with God. And in that purpose, it will not fail:
Isa 55:10-11 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: (11) So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Peace,

SR


83 posted on 08/21/2014 9:54:17 PM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: Springfield Reformer

Wow - go away for a day and come back to more wisdom than you find in a Seminary.

I take some issue with the scriptures being sufficient in themselves. As Lear said - and Mrs Don-o - A lot of stuff never got recorded in the first place or has been destroyed. The very existence of the Bible is proof positive that miracles do happen! That many ancient writings, preserved (accurately, now we have the Dead Sea Scrolls to compare them with) for so long?

But scripture itself is not enough. After all - the world changes. There will be new prophets and new teachings. God hasn’t finished the book then shut up for good. Scripture is a test of these new things. Something to use to measure them for truth.

Then there is His direct word. Sometime it’s words of comfort or caution. Sometimes it’s a flat out command. If you have never had one of those, consider yourself lucky. Scares the crap out of you, every single time. Satan tries to sneak into your thoughts - God walks in like he owns the place (suppose He does, really) and lays down the law.


84 posted on 08/22/2014 3:33:12 AM PDT by EC1
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To: Springfield Reformer
You've written well, and there's nothing to take exception to. I do appreciate your erudition, I always have a respect for learning.

BUT! It doesn't really cover the fact that Scripture, precious and irreplaceable though it is, is not in itself the source of salvation, nor even necessary for salvation, as is evident in the case of the book-less, the illiterate and those not mentally competent to read. Their salvation is provided, no doubt, by Christ, per the truths found in Scripture (and again, Christ says "I am the Truth") but not by a book or collection of books, or an approved canon or anything of that sort.

[Now at this point I am afraid of being misunderstood as devaluing Scripture, making it seem on a level with any-old-thing-you-want, and that's not what I'm saying. We need Christ, and "Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ," as Jerome says. But rather than saying Scripture is "complete," "sufficient," "all you need," et. let us say Christ is complete, sufficient, and all you need.]

Back to those three categories of people,the book-less, or illiterate, or mentally limited: taken together, they have always been the majority until very recently, and in many nations are still the majority. Mot earlyChristians had no Scripture, and that's a fac. They heard the Scriuptures read at Liturgy on Sunday (a good definition of Scripture is "what's read at Liturgy": these are, inherently. liturgical books) and hey heard the preaching and thy received the Sacraments and they imitated the vituous lives of pople like Paul Priscilla & Aquila, etc and thus the truths of the Faith were transmitted to them. The "all nations" which the Apostles were to teach and baptize, were and long remained without texts in 99% of their waiting hands.

But look at the individual Scripture-less person: he needs to be reached by those teachings of the Apostles which can be handed down or reached-across to him. And that handing-down, hat reaching-across, is, precisely, Tradition.

It is not, precisely, Scripture. It's the truths which can be found in or derived from or reasonable inferred from Scripture no doubt, but it's not Scripture per se. To use a term you yourself relied upon, it's that which is God-breathed. And God doesnt just breathe texts.

Nothing in Tradition can contradict, much less abrogate, Scripture, but it can deliver those same truths, with clarification, with varied styles of repetition, with amplification, with unfoldings which reveal more depth, more detail, more specific application --- and all of this from the Holy Spirit, who is the font of bothScripture and Tradition.

OK, here's how I want to say it: God "desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth". That of course includes those who are, and will always be, Scripture-less; it also includes those who, possessing Scriptures, still by God's will and the working of the Holy Spirit need the Church's doctrine, life and worship, all of which are handed down in speech, song, ways of prayer, ways of obedience, morals and manners, and practice, all under the "breath" of the same Spirit who breathed those God-breathed books.

Scripture is THAT PART of the Apostles' preaching and teaching which was committed to writing before the death of the last Apostle. It is a closed canon: public revelation, in that sense, is closed.

So in these ways --- Scripture and Tradition --- Christ must be proclaimed to all nations and individuals, so that this revelation may reach to the ends of the earth.

This living transmission, accomplished in the Holy Spirit, is called Tradition, since it is distinct from Sacred Scripture, though closely connected to it. All this is part of the Father's self-communication, since what He communicates to us is Christ, and the Church is --- we are --- the Body of Christ, and Christ teaches us through the Chuch.

Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For God has utterd, really, only one Word, and that Word is Our Lord Jesus Christ.

90 posted on 08/22/2014 7:41:54 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (What does the LORD require of you, but to act justly, to love tenderly, to walk humbly with your God)
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