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To: af_vet_1981; daniel1212
I also note scripture in the follow up epistle by the same author dealing with those who wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction.

It is the unlearned and unstable, Peter said, who wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction. Damnable heresies are disputed by the authority of God's word NOT the presumed authority of men.

124 posted on 07/24/2014 2:57:19 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums; af_vet_1981; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; CynicalBear; mitch5501; BlueDragon; ...
It is the unlearned and unstable, Peter said, who wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction. Damnable heresies are disputed by the authority of God's word NOT the presumed authority of men.

They are ultimately disputed by the authority of God's assured word, which the Scriptures are, but God has established the teaching as well as administrative office of the church:

"Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;" "Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness." (Romans 12:7-8)

And as Westminster affirms,

It belongs to synods and councils, ministerially to determine controversies of faith, and cases of conscience; to set down rules and directions for the better ordering of the public worship of God, and government of his Church; to receive complaints in cases of maladministration, and authoritatively to determine the same; which decrees and determinations, if consonant to the Word of God, are to be received with reverence and submission; not only for their agreement with the Word, but also for the power whereby they are made, as being an ordinance of God appointed thereunto in His Word. — http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/wcf.htm

But the issue with RCs is the premise of Rome and its presuppositions, that man cannot assuredly determine Truth thru the use of his fallible human reasoning, and thus an assuredly (if conditionally) infallible magisterium (AIM) is essential for determination and assurance of Truth (including writings and men being of God) and to fulfill promises of Divine presence, providence of Truth, and preservation of faith, and authority. (Jn. 14:16,26; 15:26; 16:13; Mt. 16:18; Lk. 10:16)

And that being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation (oral and written) means that Rome is that assuredly infallible magisterium. Thus those who dissent from the latter are in rebellion to God.

As Cardinal Avery Dulles stated :

People cannot discover the contents of revelation by their unaided powers of reason and observation. They have to be told by people who have received in from on high. Even the most qualified scholars who have access to the Bible and the ancient historical sources fall into serious disagreements about matters of belief.” - Cardinal Avery Dulles, SJ, “Magisterium: Teacher and Guardian of the Faith,” p. 72; http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2008/08/magisterial-cat-and-mouse-game.html

the sense of Holy Scripture can nowhere be found incorrupt outside of the Church, and cannot be expected to be found in writers who, being without the true faith, only gnaw the bark of the Sacred Scripture, and never attain its pith.” - Providentissimus Deus

This extends even to what Divine revelation consists of, not only its meaning. And as Rome has defined "that the Roman church has never erred; nor will it err to all eternity," and has infallibly declared that she is infallible, then it is reasoned,

Catholic doctrine, as authoritatively proposed by the Church, should be held as the supreme law; for, seeing that the same God is the author both of the Sacred Books and of the doctrine committed to the Church, it is clearly impossible that any teaching can by legitimate means be extracted from the former, which shall in any respect be at variance with the latter. Hence it follows that all interpretation is foolish and false which either makes the sacred writers disagree one with another, or is opposed to the doctrine of the Church.(Providentissimus Deus; http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18111893_providentissimus-deus_en.html)

Thus the AIM of Rome effectively becomes the supreme authority, not the words of Scripture, seeing as Scripture is only consists of what she says it is, and only assuredly means what she says it means. And which sola ecclesia model she shares with cults such as Mormonism.

This infallible magisterial basis for assured determination of Truth is promoted as being correct as it professes superior unity to the alternative of a non-infallible magisterium and leaders, that of souls objectively examining the evidence in order to ascertain the veracity of what is taught, as well as to gain understanding in things in general, and has the problem of competing truth claims.

"I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts." (Psalms 119:99-100)

The problem is that the AIM basis for assured determination of Truth and unity is not Scriptural, as it means souls cannot be correct in anything if in conflict with the magisterium, contrary to how the church began.

For rather than an assuredly (if conditionally) infallible magisterium is essential for assured determination of Truth, and to fulfill promises of Divine presence, providence of Truth, and preservation of faith;

And being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation (oral and written) means that this entity is that assuredly infallible magisterium,

The fact is that both writings and men of God were recognized and established as being so and Truth and faith preserved without an AIM.

And in fact the church actually began in dissent from those who sat in the seat of Moses over Israel, who were the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture, and inheritors of promises of Divine guidance, presence and perpetuation. (Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34)

And instead they followed an itinerant Preacher whom the magisterium rejected, and whom the Messiah reproved them Scripture as being supreme, (Mk. 7:2-16) and established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as did the early church as it began upon this basis. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)

For the fact is that it is abundantly evidenced that Scripture was the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God.

And which testifies (Lk. 24:27,44, etc.) to writings of God being recognized and established as being so (essentially due to their unique and enduring heavenly qualities and attestation), and thus they materially provide for a canon of Scripture (as well as for reason, the church, etc.) In addition, when the magisterium to which all are to concur with is in error, then it takes the problem of individual error to a corporate level, as seen in Rome, beginning with the very doctrine of perpetual papal infallibility, which is the basis for the AIM of Rome.

Moreover, while the AIM model for assurance of Truth attempts to rectify the problem of individuals claiming to be True based upon a claim to superior personal veracity, as with cults and the RC straw man of SS, yet the alternative sola ecclesia model results in competing ecclesiastical claims error to be the one true infallible church, which both Rome and EOs as well as cults claim.

But what of the divisions that result from competing interpretations? This requires Truth claims to be est. as the church was, which was not on the basis of an autocratic authority declaring that is was the one true church that Christ established, or even by Christ declaring that He was the Divine Son of God. But in both cases Truth claims were est. upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, overcoming error with Truth, manifesting that it is the church of the living God, not its institutionalized god, the pillar and ground of the Truth (which says no more than it is of the truth, grounded upon and supporting it). Rather than an entity autocratically declaring it is the world champion, invoking support from sources which can only assuredly mean what it says they mean, including the rule book, an entity must win the competition that it is the world champion in obeying the rules. And by which Rome is disqualified , fundamentally and otherwise.

This does not mean that under the Scriptural you will not have false Christs or gospels, but that the Truth will be Scripturally manifest so that the elect will see it.

"But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God." (2 Corinthians 4:2)

This also does not mean that a centralized magisterium is not the Biblical model and goal, not as possessing perpetual assured infallibility of office, but able to make judgments that are established upon infallible Scripture, as was the decision of Acts 15. ((Gn. 35:2; Ex. 34:15-16; Ezek. 30:30,31; Gn. 34:1,2,31; Dt. 22:28,29; 2Chron. 21:11; Gn. 9:4; Lv. 7:27; 17:13,14)

The absence of this is due to the lack of such men as the apostles were, and which Rome is not even in the competition for being. It was only under men who could say they were,

"Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed: But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,. By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left," (2 Corinthians 6:3-4, 6-7)

"Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds." (2 Corinthians 12:12)

It is not historical descent which establishes authenticity, but both writings and men of God were established as being so due to their heavenly qualities. And from the time when Scripture was first written, then it was the standard by which all Truth claims were tested and established by.

And only insofar as the church conforms to this it can claim to be a church, most primarily in preaching the gospel in which the redeemed come to God as souls damned for their works - not saved because of them - and destitute of any means or merit whereby they may escape their just and eternal punishment in Hell Fire and gain eternal life with God. And with contrite heart cast their whole-hearted repentant faith upon the mercy of God in Christ, trusting the risen Divine Lord Jesus to save them by His sinless shed blood. (Rm. 3:9 - 5:1) And whose faith is thus counted as righteousness, but it is a faith that will follow Him,, confessing the Lord Jesus in baptism and proclaiming Him as such in word and deed. And repenting when convicted of not doing so.

139 posted on 07/25/2014 7:50:56 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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