Posted on 07/05/2014 7:28:35 AM PDT by delchiante
CAMPOBASSO, Italy — Pope Francis says abandoning the traditionally Christian practice of not working on Sundays isn’t such a good change. Francis on Saturday traveled to Molise, an agricultural region in the heart of southern Italy where unemployment is chronically high. While he said poor people need employment to have dignity, he disagreed with opening stores and other businesses on Sundays as a way to create jobs.m
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
Jesus healed the sick on the Sabbath, which angered the Rabbi's who then questioned his authority to speak in the name of The Lord.
Yes, Jesus "worked" on the Sabbath, there are a handful of (or less) references to that in the Bible. Most overlook them.
We sure do live in a society of immediate gratification, don’t we?
It’s times like these when I wish we could edit posts to better explain them.
I just believe the premise is wrong.
If you are a Catholic or most any other denomination you have been taught that the Sabbath has been changed from the seventh day of the week to the first day.
But I believe the only way even God could change the Sabbath would be to destroy all of his works and go back and do it over.
It is history, God rested on the seventh day and called it the Sabbath rest.
We can do what ever we want with the first day of the week but it is not the Sabbath day.
To honor the Sabbath may be no more than just to recognize it as fact, and to do that we would have to believe that God was creator of the world.
It seems to me that this makes perfect sense given the New Testament fulfills the Old. Christ fulfilled the Old Law. By believing this, we don't suggest God has to destroy all of his works and go back and do it over , do we?
“”Sabbath” did not change. It was replaced.”
That is not biblical either. No where in the Bible can you support that.
....And made it holy.
But if you read subsequent posts you would learn that technically the “Sabbath” did not change. It was replaced.
The day of Pentecost came on Sunday, the first day of the week, it was not a day of rest in fact it was just the opposite of rest it was a new beginning.
How any one can equate that with the Sabbath is beyond my understanding.
The new beginning on the day of Pentecost can be equated with the first day of creation, but it can not be equated with the seventh day which is the day of rest.
The new beginning at Pentecost fulfills the new covenant foretold in Jeremiah 31:31-33, and is explained in Hebrews.
Replacing or changing the day of the Sabbath would be no different than doing the same thing to Pentecost, they are two different events.
That is right, a tradition. Not following that tradition and observing Sabbath was a source of persecution throughout the history of the Church. I make the hypothesis that tradition kept the Jew separate while dispersed among the nations.
....And made it holy.>>>>
Ezekiel 20
12Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.
And that’s why you’re a Sola Scriptura Prottie.
You really don’t get what I’m saying. Either that or you’re purposely not getting it. I noticed that you avoided my other question about Christ’s fulfillment of the Law. Did God have to re-do things when Christ fulfilled the Old Law? Or do you not believe that He fulfilled the Old Law?
Hebrews 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest (Sabbath).
You really don’t get what I’m saying. Either that or you’re purposely not getting it. I noticed that you avoided my other question about Christ’s fulfillment of the Law.
Yes Jesus fulfilled the law but he did not do away with them, he put them in our hearts and minds, what he done away with is the rituals involving the laws, the ten commandments.
we don’t suggest God has to destroy all of his works and go back and do it over , do we? >>>>>
I did not say you did, I said it is the only way it could be changed.
But the Church is trying to invent approval of Sunday worship even though they do not need it.
And they are falsely using it as if it were the Christian Sabbath.
Why don`t they just tell it like it is, it is the day that Christ rose and so a day to rejoice and a day of worship?
They do not need to invent excuses.
But it is not the Sabbath.
John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
The eighth commandment is one of them and they are all part of the two great commandments.
I have always worked on the seventh day and have not always rested or went to church on the day that Christ rose which is the first day.
But that does not mean that I do not recognize that Christ rose on the first day of the week and that the day of rest is on the seventh day of the week.
I just work when I can work and I go to Church when ever I want which any more is very seldom.
I do not have to go through any ritual to show what my faith is, as James said in
James2
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone......
The letter of the law will not save us because we can not keep it to the letter, we will offend in some way, besides if we could even a robot could.
But if we keep the law in our hearts we know when we have sinned and can ask forgiveness.
Hebrews 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest (Sabbath).
Hebrews 4
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Ezekiel 20
and my sabbaths they greatly polluted:
The ones it was first preached to polluted the Sabbaths.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
I have read and read again but can not really get a grip on what is being said, but the seventh day Sabbath can not be taken lightly, even more so in the N.T.
But I definitely could sure use a rest.
Never claimed to be protestant
sola fide—only by faith
sola Christus—only by Jesus Christ
sola Scriptura—only by the authority of Scripture
sola gratia—only by grace.
“the Bible issue
While all this was going on, the issue of sola Scriptura continued to aggravate the church in Rome, as it directly countered its claim of authority to interpret the Bible. The advent of the printing press had made the Bible and the writings of the Reformers readily available throughout Europe. Even some Roman priests thought that the Bible should have a more authoritative place in the church.
Finally the Council of Trent was called. Its many sessions were held over nearly 19 years. One of the issues that the Roman church wanted to counter was the Protestant principle of sola Scriptura. Thus, on January 18, 1562, Gaspar del Fosso, the archbishop of Reggio, presented the same argument that Eck had used against Luther.
He said, “The Protestants claim to stand upon the written word only. They profess to hold the Scripture alone as the standard point of faith. They justify their revolt by the plea that the church has apostatised from the written word and follows tradition. Now the Protestants’ claim that they stand upon the written word only is not true. Their profession of holding the Scripture alone as the standard of faith is false!”
His proof of this statement lay in the fact that the written word explicitly enjoins the observance of the seventh day as the Sabbath. However, Protestants did not observe the seventh day, as they should if they held the Scriptures alone as their standard. Instead, they rejected it.
Del Fosso went on to argue that “[Protestants] not only reject the observance of the Sabbath enjoined in the written word, but they have adopted and do practice the observance of Sunday, for which they have only the tradition of the church.””
http://www.signsofthetimes.org.au/items/the-forgotten-reformer
Yeah, I’m just going to say that I don’t understand you or what you’re trying to say here.
And there’s nothing you can say that will make me waver from the teachings of Christ’s Holy Catholic Church (if that is what you’re trying to do).
I hope you had a nice.....Sunday.
And there’s nothing you can say that will make me waver from the teachings of Christ’s Holy Catholic Church (if that is what you’re trying to do).
And I have been proved wrong a time or two.
But I would have to be proved wrong on several things before I would join the Catholic Church and believe it or not I wanted to be proven wrong.
Hey raven,
Ezekiel 46:1
Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the SIX working days; BUT on the Sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the New Moon it shall be opened.
Each new month on His calendar begins with the New Moon. That is day one of every month...
Then, according to what He gave Ezekiel, there would be six work days after that first day of the month. (That brings us to seven days in His month-yet we have not hit His Sabbath)
Then, the ‘seventh day sabbath’ is actually on the 8th day of His month. Sounds confusing but only if we think that time has been followed the gregorian way.... but scripture tells us different...
So Day 1of His month-new moon day
Day 2-7 of His month- the six work days.
Day 8 of His month- weekly Sabbath.
That is what Scripture says..
And that pattern continues- count six more work days (because there is only one new moon day each month) and you come to the 15th, 22nd, and 29th days of each of His months as being weekly Sabbaths..
And we know from science that the moon phase is average of 29.5 days today.
Which fits into His calendar as every month will have at least 29 (some 30) days.
The 15th and 22nd are highlighted in scripture as days of feasts and Sabbaths in the first and seventh mont- they were detailed a few times in Exodus too..
(Israel’s first sabbath occurred in exodus on the 22nd day- that is what the manna was all about-not only feeding them, but teaching them His timekeeping- it doesn’t say the 22nd.. scripture gives us the 15th and then we can count six days of manna and you get to the 22nd as the sabbath...
Israel has a pope appointed sabbath that conflicts with the Sabbath He gave them..
They will even postpone His feasts on years that His Sabbath will bump up with their weekly world appointed Sabbath..
This is the point. our continual seven day week is not scriptural... our Sovereign explained to Ezekiel it breaks every new moon- as those new moons were sort like our thanksgiving meals, but once a month-not once a year..they weren’t full work days as cooking and cleaning were allowed for the banquets to be held... special offerings at the temple were detailed on those days when the temple was around..markets were closed as Amos details (so maybe they were not like our thanksgiving feast)... but bottom line, they were the head of their months... (on the solar only based gregorian, the moon is completely ignored)
The new moon day, according to scripture, is not one of the six working days or the Sabbath...
But you cannot find His Sabbath without it, nor know what is a working day without it...
and Israel ignores the moon (except for the two months they think the feasts are) and uses just the sun-just like all the rest of us do, or did..
The moon is appointed to ‘seasons’- that isnt our winter, spring, summer fall- but His appointed times, times He gave to Israel to worship Him...
Somewhere they abandoned His timekeeping for the world and kind of sorta get into the spirit for a couple months a year(unless it conflicts with their saturday)that is why passover, etc, can all fall on different days of the gregorian week.
Best example of His calendar at work is the battle of Jericho that proves the gregorian and its continual seven day weeks is counterfeit..
The book of jasher, referenced in His Word, details that the marching began on the new moon day...
That means the seventh day and bloddiest day of the battle/march occurred on the sixth ‘work day’ and never conflicted with His Sabbath..
The gregorian cannot explain how after 40 years in the wilderness, our Heavenly Father gave Israel a ‘mulligan’ on their sabbath at Jericho.
He didn’t...
If we understand His timekeeping..
I dont take any of it as sarcastic! We are all on a journey and nobody has cornered the market on wisdom or knowledge...
This is all foreign and strange to us... Israel doesnt get it right and they were given it!
I don’t know where there are any out there that observe His calendar... it would mean not being able to have a ‘conventional’ job or go to a conventional school if still in school..it would be very difficult to live in both calendars...(but some could-it just wouldn’t be those connected to the world in large parts)
If I had the job I had before His calendar was revealed to me, I didn’t have enough vacation/pto days in a year to take off the days when His Sabbath hit a Gregorian Tuesday for four weeks in a row- and then either a Wednesday or Thursday the next month..and maybe Friday for four the next....
(I had quit my job before I knew all this)...but I may never have had this revealed to me without taking that faith step of quitting and following Him..
now I can’t see going back but those who get their eyes open who seem to have it all together, it would be a major faith step...
His timekeeping is counter to how the entire world functions...
And that it is why it made sense to me-and maybe it will to believers out there who do believe our enemy is that deceptive and subtle..
I mean who doesn’t learn the calendar as a child and live their entire life by it like we know 2+2=4?
Even the Amish who are as removed from the world as we can find here, still uses the world’s timekeeping..
Problem is, our Messiah lived His entire life out with His Heavenly Father’s calendar- and the big days on that calendar all point to Him..
I think His bride should and can know those...
As for my faith community, I hope it is those who believe in the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the finished work of His only begotten Son, our Messiah.I believe in the actual word(Torah/prophets, etc) became flesh and dwelt among us-literally..and I am more convinced every day...
Jews get circumcised on the 8th because Messiah did, etc...
Those dates and details are not important in christendom-(but I think they are)
He fulfills all of it.and taught us what and what not to do..
For example, He loosened the Sabbath while He walked with us and bound/tightened the laws on adultery and murder to include not just physical, but what was in our heart- He gave us more commands, not less..sermon on the mount is just one commandment after the other..
and He gave His church the same power.. so what they decide, if in His Father’s will, can be bound or loosened on earth as in heaven...
All that being said, I don’t think He changed the Sabbath..and the world has changed it-even Israel..
As for dietary, I don’t eat pork anymore but it has more to do with seeing what parts of the pig (in a puzzle form) our favorite meals came from at a state fair exhibit...
I don’t concern myself with what is unclean or clean but if I have a question, His word will be my guide...
I don’t have most of those ‘unclean’ animals on the menus of the restaurants/grocery I frequent anyway...
I don’t have the money for shell fish, lobster anymore so I don’t worry about it, although I used to love it... (But then along came Fukushima-now, I have a worldy excuse:).
As far I can tell, I am eating stuff He gave us to eat.. although some don’t at meat..that is up to them..
I just thank Him He provides me with food, shelter and clothing....and if He gives us the option to be choosy, that is a blessing...
Scripture says I can concern myself with fornication, food sacrificed to idols, food strangled, and the blood...
Part of quitting my job, was movng to another place- I started attending an orthodox presbyterian church on Sundays and those Sundays started to be the toughest and busiest day for me in my whole week...
and it seemed odd to me that the only day I had to hustle and bustle about, was the Sabbath...and I asked Him, sought the answer and knocked on the door-
After all, I had quit everything for Him, I thought I deserved an answer why the sabbath was so trying..I first reasoned that maybe Saturday was really the day..
But then His calendar popped out.. and the answer came back neither day is His Sabbath... they can stumble onto it, but are no more holy that moon day, tiwsday, etc.
And that was not twenty years ago... it all started in 2012 and I have had more questions that He has answered in time, sometmes using His own sky as His chalkboard..
But faith and obedience to Him has been the key... I observe what He has shown me, awaiting the next answer...
And knowing things like the day our Messiah was really born, when He was cicumcised’ dedicated to the temple, baptized, etc are results of being obedient to His teachings...
Everyone can ask, seek and knock, and if willing to accept the answers and obey, there is no telling what somebody may learn that will floor me like this all does.
And one need not become Jewish.... I have no desire to go into that counterfeit world either..
He has set me free. Just not how the world defines it...
His Truth is better than the fiction we have been taught..
May all His Bride seek His appointed times to know Him more fully..we don’t have to guess His birth.. We can know and scripture and His calendar tells us....
a Bride having to guess or ignore the big days of her Bridegroom’s life seems ‘unwise’ to me...
HalleluYah!
You are living today in a counterfeit world based on a false premise that the week that the Gregorian calendar shows is the biblical week..
I don’t care whether you are a catholic or non catholic.. protestants, jews, muslims, secular humanists, satanistst, atheists, all observe the world calendar system and all are eceived,,,
I was one of them...
The world uses the sun as its guide to tell time- and a couple months in the year, jews and muslims incorporate what He gave us for appointed times, the moon, and celebrate their holy celebrations...
The word says He gave us His sun, moon and stars for this purpose..
Kind of hard to tell what time it is with one hand on a clock, and that is exactly what the world does (led by the Gregorian calendar)
That Gregorian led peole to ‘close’ things on their perceived sabbath with blue laws.. and that calendar has determined another unscriptural day, December 25, as a day for the world to stop..(and at least here, it has done a job job of it/sarcasm
Scripture tells in at least one place where people were not allowed to buy and sell unless they have a mark.. well, I can see a spiritual mark that counterfeits His seal located in Sabbath commandment of His Ten Commandments..
May sound crazy to you but you see the world as a different place than I do..
Thankfully, the restaurants and businesses open and blue laws are not popular today.. but some wish for those days gone by...
And thankfully, Chinese restaurants, diners, and movie theaters stay open on December 25 so people can still buy and sell..
You are certainly free to restrict people buying and selling on specific days... me, I am the opposite., especially, if those days are man made counterfeits of real Sabbaths and Holy Days in His Holy Word..
It screams revelation to me...but again, I understand By His Grace, His calendar and timekeeping...
Scripture confirms times and laws would change and blue laws certainly seem to be a prime candidate... Daniel 7:25..
And the very elect would even join the fight like you seem to rally around the pope and his beliefs .. I suspect there are lots of billy Graham’s out there that agree too...
I am thankful I am not conformed to the business/government/religious babylon today...smart phones havent made us any smarter...
Just slaves to world ‘think’..-
Even if they are from a ‘religious’ premise...
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