Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: roamer_1
Well, now, we are arguing semantics, LOL, and I agree with you on the major points, especially the "majic juju"!!

However, Jesus did tell his disciples to take the Bread and Wine in remembrance of him (1 Cor 11:23-28), and He did command his disciples in Matt 28:19 to "...make disciples...baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit..."

The reason I argue that the issue can be a semantical one is this, several definitions for the word "sacrament" exist, and one's definition definitely defines one's position on the matter. To wit, the Oxford online dictionary lists 4

1.0 A religious ceremony or act of the Christian Church that is regarded as an outward and visible sign of inward and spiritual divine grace, in particular.
1.1(In the Roman Catholic and many Orthodox Churches) the rites of baptism, confirmation, the Eucharist, penance, anointing of the sick, ordination, and matrimony.
1.2(Among Protestants) baptism and the Eucharist.
1.3 (also the Blessed Sacrament or the Holy Sacrament) (In Roman Catholic use) the consecrated elements of the Eucharist, especially the Host
1.4 A thing of mysterious and sacred significance; a religious symbol.

That said, the RCC has a definite meaning as conveyed in the Council of Trent that most Protestants or Baptists reject outright.

73 posted on 06/23/2014 12:50:13 PM PDT by jimmyray
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies ]


To: jimmyray
However, Jesus did tell his disciples to take the Bread and Wine in remembrance of him (1 Cor 11:23-28), and He did command his disciples in Matt 28:19 to "...make disciples...baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit..."

A common mistake made by Christians of all stripes is supposing that 'Bread and Wine' are a new thing - The Jews have been keeping 'communion' for millennia, long before Christians. The ceremonial prayers (actually two, one for bread and one for wine), a remembrance of Melchizedek and of Abraham, were what Yeshua was performing - What is important is not the ceremonial prayers He performed, but rather, the revelation he announced thereby:

'Blessed are you, oh YHWH, Creator of the universe, who brings forth bread from the earth'...

This is my body, broken for you...

'Blessed are you, oh YHWH, Creator of the universe, who brings forth fruit from the vine'...

This is my blood, which is shed for you...

This is an institution of the Order of Melchizedek being revealed... HE is the BREAD brought forth from the earth. HE is the VINE. This is BIG-TIME Abrahamic Covenant stuff.

The same with Baptism - Look to the Hebrew mikvah to find it's true root.
The same with marriage - look to the Hebrew marriage to understand your marriage covenant and betrothal.

The reason I argue that the issue can be a semantical one is this, several definitions for the word "sacrament" exist, and one's definition definitely defines one's position on the matter.

Again, it is incidental to my argument. It is the actual images portrayed by these sacraments or symbols which are corrupted - It depends upon what a baptism IS... What communion IS... What they look like, what they are for. If the picture is wrong, one can try to explain it and lend attributes to it until the cows come home, and you will get nowhere.

77 posted on 06/23/2014 1:33:38 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson