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To: dartuser
Neither ... God has defined it ... in the scriptures. The scriptures are sufficient for salvation, you do not seem to believe that.

Not so fast. Where in Scripture does it say that the Scriptures are sufficient for salvation? And what are we to make of the following:

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned. (Mark 16:16)
Is Baptism necessary for salvation? An important question, no? Even Protestants cannot agree on this.

Are you an elder? Have you been vetted through the elder qualifications listed in 1 Tim, 2 Tim, Titus, 1 Pet? And are you in agreement with our doctrinal statement? I suspect that at least some of these would disqualify you (mostly the doctrinal statement).

And by what right does anyone at your congregation have to declare themselves the church and vet those who would proclaim the gospel? And if your local congregation has this authority why did not the full church at the time of Luther and Calvin not have the authority to prevent them from preaching?

44 posted on 06/10/2014 8:31:28 AM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned. (Mark 16:16)”

The baptism Mark speaks of is not the baptism of water that John the Baptist did, but the Baptism of Spirit that Jesus does. When one receives the “Baptism of Spirit” they begin to perceive Jesus all the time and experience His Love at all times. It is not intellectual theory. This experience is also the real Communion. Just as Jesus and His Father became One, We become One with Jesus. And, As the Father that exists in Jesus exists in us also, as we exist within Jesus. That realization experience is the real “Communion.”

When you receive this Baptism of Spirit you begin to perceive your reality from your own soul or spirit rather than being limited to your physical senses. This is why Jesus said to His disciples when He sent them out... “The things that I do and more you too shall do in my name.”

Show me man who can do some of the things that Jesus did and I will show you a man that is Baptized in the Spirit of Jesus. There is a big difference in the baptisms.


48 posted on 06/10/2014 8:55:41 AM PDT by tired&retired
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To: Petrosius
Some of this has to wait till later

And what are we to make of the following: Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned. (Mark 16:16)

I'm sure you know of the textual issue in the ending of Mark's gospel. If the best textual scholars are unsure that Mark 16 is genuine, then I will read it as genuine but will never use Mark 16 to support any doctrinal view. If the doctrine is taught elsewhere in scripture then I will develop the evidence from that instead. Sound reasonable?

I'm sure you wouldn't espouse snake handling or drinking formaldehyde based on this chapter would you? Nor would I.

There are many many places in scripture where salvation is mentioned. Sometimes this aspect is mentioned, sometimes another is mentioned. However, since there cannot be any contradiction in scripture ... all together they must espouse one way. If in one passage it is absolutely clear what is required, and the other place is not ... then I would argue that clarity is the dictate.

I see lots of places where salvation is mentioned ... it would take lots of time to list them all. But they all taken together must espouse one way.

So, for example, what are we to make of Romans 10 in light of Mark 16?

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. (Romans 9:8-10

This passage doesn't mention baptism, which passage is correct? Mark 16 or Romans 10?

51 posted on 06/10/2014 9:10:51 AM PDT by dartuser
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