Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Legatus

1) We’ll address the nightmare first. Perhaps you joined the Church after the homosexual/pedophile priest scandal erupted which nearly destroyed our Church. Can’t get much more nightmarish then that. Not saying that clerical celibacy causes homosexual or pedophile behavior, but it certainly helped create an atmosphere attractive to such individuals.

2) The Assumption refers to Mary’s ascent into Heaven after her death. Does not refer to circumstances surrounding her birth.

3) I do believe what is written in the Bible trumps any dogma or doctrine propagated by ANY church. The Catholic Church has every right to formulate its own doctrines, dogmas, rituals, and traditions. But NO church has the right to rewrite the Bible or to rewrite history IMHO.

4) Priests and bishops in the Bible were married men as were priests, bishops, and popes in the early Catholic Church. Mandatory clerical celibacy was not institutionalized in the Church until relatively recently and for reasons which had nothing to do with anything that can be found in the Bible. Celibacy was made a requirement by the Church to combat rampant corruption including nepotism and simony.


243 posted on 06/11/2014 11:25:12 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 239 | View Replies ]


To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
1) I entered the Church in 1997, just in time for the tidal wave to hit.

2) So you believe in the Assumption but not the Immaculate Conception or the perpetual virginity of the BVM? Based on what? The Bible is silent on the Assumption, it comes to us from Tradition.

4) In the interests of full disclosure, my best friend is a priest so I cheated on this question by calling and asking him, he directed me to a book titled The Apostolic Origins of Priestly Celibacy but my google-fu led me to this link at the Vatican website and This rather long article at OSV and This at CUF which begins:

"Through the media we repeatedly hear from dissenting theologians and commentators that priestly celibacy is a rule which the Catholic Church has “inflicted” on her clergy only since the 11th or 12th century. That is false. Here are the facts."

Just google "Apostolic Origins of Priestly Celibacy" and you'll find tons of stuff.

249 posted on 06/11/2014 1:07:10 PM PDT by Legatus (Keep calm and carry on)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 243 | View Replies ]

To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
I do believe what is written in the Bible trumps any dogma or doctrine propagated by ANY church.

That is what distinguishes the NT church from Rome and other cultic sola ecclesia groups, in which examining the Scriptures to ascertain the veracity of RC teaching is not to be done by the faithful, as Scripture, Tradition and history are only what she says they are.

Certainly some of Scripture first existed in oral form, yet was established upon Scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as is abundantly evidenced. And as seen by a study of the "the word of God" (or the Lord) it can by assumed that wholly inspired Truth expressed in preaching was subsequently written.

While Scripture does not contain all that Christ did or can be know from God, (Jn. 21:25; 2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 10:4) yet Scripture is the only morphous body of Truth that is affirmed to be wholly inspired of God, and provides what is needed to instrumentally make man perfect, fully equipped for every good work. (2Tim. 3:15-17) By which all other Truth claims are tested by.

But that some of Scripture was first expressed orally does not mean that other oral teaching is wholly inspired of God, that does not make whatever is expressed orally is also inspired (and RC teaching states that the words in which Tradition has been passed down is not inspired). Yet Tradition is held by Rome to be the word of God based upon the premise of the assured veracity of Rome which declares it is so.

And under which all is declared to support her as needed.

Catholic doctrine, as authoritatively proposed by the Church, should be held as the supreme law; for, seeing that the same God is the author both of the Sacred Books and of the doctrine committed to the Church, it is clearly impossible that any teaching can by legitimate means be extracted from the former, which shall in any respect be at variance with the latter. Hence it follows that all interpretation is foolish and false which either makes the sacred writers disagree one with another, or is opposed to the doctrine of the Church.(Providentissimus Deus; http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a3.htm#104)

It was the charge of the Reformers that the Catholic doctrines were not primitive, and their pretension was to revert to antiquity. But the appeal to antiquity is both a treason and a heresy. It is a treason because it rejects the Divine voice of the Church at this hour, and a heresy because it denies that voice to be Divine...The only Divine evidence to us of what was primitive is the witness and voice of the Church at this hour. — "Most Rev." Dr. Henry Edward Cardinal Manning, "Lord Archbishop" of Westminster, The Temporal Mission of the Holy Ghost: Or Reason and Revelation (New York: J.P. Kenedy & Sons, originally written 1865, reprinted with no date), pp. 227-228.

Mandatory clerical celibacy was not institutionalized in the Church until relatively recently and for reasons which had nothing to do with anything that can be found in the Bible.

It may be argued there were political causes but that Paul advocated celibacy, yet as said, that was a gift, and to suppose all those called to be pastors have that gift is without warrant and presumptuous, and contrary to the normative state of the church, in which even most of the apostles were married.

258 posted on 06/11/2014 8:11:25 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 243 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson