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Understanding the word-— torment to be something it isn’t is parsing words? Really ask yourself if the above statement does not describe what you are trying to do.

The word “torment” is an english word. The NT was not written in English. And no, I’m not doing the same thing. Technically, there is scripture to support both points of view (obviously). The foundation from which I am reaching my conclusion is the overall personality of God as described in His word as well as my personal relationship with Him. I come from these bullet points.

1. God created us in His image. He gave us a sense of justice, though it is only a limited version of His.
2. The eternal torment paradigm grossly violates our sense of justice. The human’s perception of justice involves the concept of the punishment fitting the crime. We don’t punish animals for things they cannot even understand are wrong. However, we sometimes kill them for it (if they are a danger). Likewise, we don’t throw a person in prison for 20 years for driving without license tabs. Because we can’t even understand the concept of eternal torment, we can’t wrap our minds around the concept of a person simply refusing the message of the bible because they are a skeptic being sent to such torment. And that is one reason so many people think the Christian message is foolishness. It is also interesting that many of them are heavily invested in that being part of the Christian teaching.
3. The fate of the lost, over and over, is described using words like “death”, “destruction”, “perish”, and when the length of time of that condition is described, the main point is that the condition is quite final. Hence the “consuming flame”, “their worm does not die”, etc. It makes it perfectly clear that for them, there is no redemption. There is no coming back from this state. It is not a form of purgatory. It is the end.
3. In all of bibical history, the fate of those God has deemed evil or otherwise in need of judgement have all received the fate of being killed or otherwise eliminated. When Israel was instructed to wipe out entire nations, they were not instructed to torture. They were instructed to kill them all. No kind of torture is never even brought up.

And then there is the whole concept of punishment. What is it? What’s its purpose? (I’m asking rhetorically)

When I view the whole package, though I always had a problem with the “turn or burn” message, I never really thought about it. When I did, and thought about its ramifications, I DID have a problem with it. When I studied it, I saw it for what it is - an apparent false teaching that crept into the church as a way some well meaning humans thought they could scare more people into Christiandom. At best.

RE: The word “torment” is an english word. The NT was not written in English. And no, I’m not doing the same thing. Technically, there is scripture to support both points of view (obviously). The foundation from which I am reaching my conclusion is the overall personality of God as described in His word as well as my personal relationship with Him. I come from these bullet points.

OK, let's use the Greek word instead. The Greek word is βασανισμου. How do you translate that into English? Every single translation I see uses the word torment.

BTW, I know how to read and speak two other languages -- Mandarin and Filipino.

The Filipino Bible translates the word from the Greek as : 'Paghihirap' or in English 'Suffering'.

The words forever and ever in Greek is translated in Filipino as 'magpakailan pa man'. There is no escaping it, the concept is still forever to the Filipino speaking people.

What about the Chinese? The Greek word: βασανισμου is translated as 苦難 in Chinese. Still denotes suffering, and they also translate the word 永永遠遠, which in English simply means forever and ever.

What about Spanish? ( I do read Spanish, not very fluently but I get by ).

Here is the translation of the verse:

y el humo del tormento de ellos suben para siempre jamás tendrá, y todo un culto reposo día ni noche a la bestia ya su imagen, y si el que reciba la marca de su nombre

y el humo de estos anavasanismouvainei siempre jamás tendrá, y un buen

Do you see the word -- TORMENTO? Ask any Spanish speaking friend whatit means to them...

What about the words -- para siempre? (forever)

In what ever language that is translated from the Greek, the meaning of the word -- TORMENT and FOREVER is THE SAME. I invite you to print this particular post out and show it to your Spanish speaking, Chinese speaking or Filipino speaking friends and ask them how they understand it.

The eternal torment paradigm grossly violates our sense of justice.

Again, you do not know the NATURE of the torment. The Bible does hint about DEGREES of punishment. So, how do you know what KIND of Justice is being meted out when it has not been revealed fully to you?

. God created us in His image. He gave us a sense of justice, though it is only a limited version of His.

Well, the Bible tells us that God is SPIRIT. And because we are created in His image, only we, human beings HAVE spirit. I don't know if a spirit can be made extinct....

The fate of the lost, over and over, is described using words like “death”, “destruction”, “perish”, and when the length of time of that condition is described, the main point is that the condition is quite final. Hence the “consuming flame”, “their worm does not die”, etc. It makes it perfectly clear that for them, there is no redemption. There is no coming back from this state. It is not a form of purgatory. It is the end.

Let's talk about "death".

In the Old Testament, is death understood to be total extinction? I don't think so.

When David committed sin with Bathsheba and his son with her was deathly sick, he prayed to God to heal his son. God refused the request. His son died. What did David do? Did he freak out as if the death of his son made him extinct? NO. He dressed up and went to pray. He explained that His son will not come to him but "I will go to him."

In other words, Death is SEPARATION. Not total extinction.

In the New Testament, St. Paul describes those who have met their death as -- those who are asleep.

So, even in the New Testament, death is not extinction. It is SEPARATION from those who are alive.

Let's look at another use of the word "death" or "die". Let's go back to the very beginning --- Genesis. God said to Adam and eve: "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Did Adam and Eve DIE ON THE DAY they ate of the fruit? YES THEY DID, but not in the way you understand DEATH ( Adam lived to be over 900 years and had many more sons and daughters with Eve ).

So, what was the death ON THE DAY that Adam and Eve disobeyed God?

You know the answer to the question -- God BANISHED them from Eden -- SEPARATION from God's presence.

This fits perfectly with what the Apostle Paul was saying when He warned about the fate of unrepentant sinners in 1 Thessalonians 1:8-9 when it says of them that they will be punished by being "shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might".

So, I don't see the use of the word -- DEATH as extinction. If any, the examples I show mean SEPARATION.

So, cut the concept of torture from your vocabulary. The misery of hell looks like it will consist of cruel physical torture, but the agony of being cut off from the true source of happiness. God is the source of all good things and the unrepentant have chosen their own path.