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To: ealgeone; dcwusmc; Jed Eckert; Recovering Ex-hippie; KingOfVagabonds; Berlin_Freeper; UnRuley1; ...

Try reading things in context:

The Church and non-Christians

839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 “the first to hear the Word of God.”327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”329

840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”330

842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”332

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.


2 posted on 05/31/2014 11:13:39 AM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: narses

1 Timothy 2:5
John 14:6
Church “doctrine” should never go crosswise of the Scriptures.


4 posted on 05/31/2014 11:21:12 AM PDT by Tucker39 (Welcome to America! Now speak English; and keep to the right....In driving, in Faith, and in politic)
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To: narses

Thank you for your response.

Its positively amazing that people read these documents without going into the context.

When someone says the Church teaches “anyone can be saved,” they often read that as saying “everyone is saved” which is erroneous.

Anyone is not everyone. The distinction is as vast as reading potential is from illiteracy.


14 posted on 05/31/2014 11:33:14 AM PDT by Bayard
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To: narses
Try reading things in context:

that's funny...a catholic wanting to read things in context.

I did read it in the context and that is what made me ask the question.

What I'm questioning is the belief that Jehovah and Allah are viewed as the same by catholics.

This next one is even more fun:

Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”

the good of Hinduism is a preparation for the Gospel??

29 posted on 05/31/2014 11:58:51 AM PDT by ealgeone (obama, borderof)
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To: narses; RichardMoore
"841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”330"

I can profess to be a housecat, but that doesn't make me one. Muslims deny the Trinity, deny that God has a Son, and deny the Crucifixion. The Koran says that if you believe Jesus is the Son of God, you do not recognize the true God.

Key doctrine aside, the Muslim form of heaven is a whorehouse where the reward consists of satisfying men's lust. The Islamic deity has no use for women, and is not portrayed as a loving Father.

There in no way on earth or in heaven that Islamics can be construed to worship the true God.

48 posted on 05/31/2014 12:27:01 PM PDT by CatherineofAragon ((Support Christian white males---the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization).)
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To: narses
It seems to me, narses, that I and your best friend both respect you. Your best friend knows a good deal more than I do about you. I may believe some things about you that aren't true. (So may he, come to that.)

But there is only one of you. One is quite enough. And I, with my mistaken beliefs, and your friend, with his more accurate beliefs, respect the one narses.

There are very grave disagreements between the Catholic Church and Islam, in dogma and in the accompanying philosophies and moral codes. They are mistaken about God in important ways.

But they believe God is the creator, that he had a special relationship with Abraham, and that he will judge us all at the end of the world. We also believe that God is merciful and compassionate, though we obviously have very different ideas about what that means "on the ground."

There are not two gods who created all things, who loved Abraham, and who will judge at the end of time.

So Christians are, within the framework of this analogy, like God's best friend, while the Muslims are are ignorant and mistaken about him on many things.

The narses in my mind is not narses. The God in my mind is not God.

It does not seem hard to me to say that Christians and Muslims adore (pray to) the same God, but, wow, are they wrong about him!

58 posted on 05/31/2014 12:33:31 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (In te, Domine, speravi: non confundar in aeternum.)
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To: narses
Try reading things in context.

I admire your optimism. 8-)

Anyway, your post is worth repeating.

The Church and non-Christians

839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 “the first to hear the Word of God.”327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”329

840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”330

842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

So, IOW, Mohammedans share the same God, although their understanding of God is imperfect. They don't understand the Trinity, although they share our belief that God is One. They profess belief in Abraham, and believe in a Final Judgement.

79 posted on 05/31/2014 1:11:44 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: narses

Quoting JP II’s Catechism is useless. It’s not consistent with prior Catholic Catechisms.


89 posted on 05/31/2014 1:21:41 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: narses

The One True God that I confess is the Triune God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I am unable to understand how Allah can be grafted into this Godhead; nor conjure a valid cause for anyone to attempt such a travesty.


99 posted on 05/31/2014 1:48:42 PM PDT by Elsiejay
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