Posted on 05/31/2014 11:09:11 AM PDT by ealgeone
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330
It’s funny that you accuse another of being childish and nasty while hurling invective their way, instead of addressing the points of their post.
When people claim that Catholic’s believe things they do not, and when the plain language shows the error and they insist they are still right, what is the point?
And truth is not invective - it is truth.
“Can they not worship the true God falsely?”
“Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”
1 John 2:23
The Church and non-Christians
The Church and non-Christians
The Church and non-Christians
The Church and non-Christians
The Church and non-Christians
Get it?
Not indiscriminately, and not without cause.
In fact, speaking of Islam in the aggregate I think that they qualify as "antichrist" because of what John says in that epistle.
What does that have to do with the post you are replying to, or the question that it was a response to?
“I didn’t say any Muslim hath the Father.”
No, but your question was, can they being worshiping Him falsely?
I think that verse refutes that idea. They may be worshipping something, but if they don’t have the Son, then they are not worshiping the Father.
A similar idea is expressed in John 8, in more detailed fashion by Christ while talking with the Jews who also claimed to worship the “God of Abraham”:
31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
33They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
34Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.b ”
39“Abraham is our father,” they answered.
“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you wouldc do what Abraham did. 40As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the works of your own father.”
“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”
42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
If the Muslims belonged to God, they would hear Jesus’ words and follow them. Clearly they do not.
ROTFLMAO, try using basic reading skills. Truly, this is all done in English.
The Church and non-Christians
The Church and non-Christians
The Church and non-Christians
The Church and non-Christians
The Church and non-Christians
Get it?
I don’t think worshipping and having are the same thing. To suggest the distinction, I guess I would refer to, “Not everyone that saith unto me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my father which is in heaven.”
ealgeone:
They don’t believe in the Divinity of Christ nor the Holy Spirit. But, neither do the Jews. Islam started in large part as a result of a Christian Heresy. Apparently, Mohommad’s first wife was from a Christian family or maybe pagan but had an Uncle who was a Nestorian Christian, thus much of what Mohammed heard about Christ was from a Nestorian view. which was a seriously flawed Christology. Of course, he also took much from Judaism.
Now I think Islam and some of its followers are a big problem, and I think the West needs to grow a spine and start calling the terrorist elements of Islam what they are radical Islam but at the same time, it would not be proper to go after everyone whose religion is Islam for if God created everything visible and invisible [per Nicene Creed], he also created those who are Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, etc, as well.
LOL, I’m sure it was you, but it really has been a while. How I remembered, don’t ask!
I’ve read some C.S. Lewis, but not the Narnia series. I need to add them to my list.
Sure. This is pure, unadulterated, Vatican II false ecumenical crap.
YWIA.
I'll post it again for all to read.
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330
Pretty clear to me that this is equating Jehovah with Allah as being the one, merciful God. What is very sad, and somewhat scary, is that the catechism doesn't call Islam a false religion and Allah a false god.
If you want to redefine in your mind What I would suggest is that the catechism be revised to clearly differentiate the difference between God of the Bible and the false god Allah.
“Pretty clear to me that this is equating Jehovah with Allah as being the one, merciful God. “
Try reading things in context:
The Church and non-Christians
Get it?
The Church and non-Christians
How can anything under that heading do what you claim?
...the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, ...
...the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, ...
...the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, ...
...the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, ...
Are you claiming that Islam does NOT “profess to hold the faith of Abraham”?
If you read the Koran you will find this is the next to the last surah in the Koran. Surah 9:5 is called the sword verse. This was one of the final revelations to Mohammed.
Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers,
9:4 except to those idolaters who have honoured their treaties with you in every detail and aided none against you. With these keep faith, until their treaties have run their term. God loves the righteous.
9:5 When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful.
Based on this verse there isn't a such a thing as a terrorist cell in Islam. This is the true Islam. It is how Islam has advanced and is advancing today. You either convert or you die.
I do agree that the West needs to grow a spine and deal with Islam....sooner rather than later.
I've read it in context and the catechism says catholics and muslims, as the catechism puts it, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, .
I am very concerned that the catechism equates the God of the Bible with the false god of Islam by declaring both to adore the one merciful God.
It's crystal clear of the linkage between the two.
By inserting this statement the catechism is equating Jehovah and Allah to be the same God. There is nothing in the catechism that distinguishes the two.
Not sure what part of that you don't understand.
Are you saying Jehovah and Allah are the same? It's a simple yes or no answer.
The best preparation for the Gospel was evidenced by John the Baptist when he was proclaiming repentance of sins was needed.
Before a person can receive the Gospel, they have to understand they are a sinner and are in need of a Savior.
It looks like we’ve hit the broken record, lather-rinse-repeat stage of the discussion. We’ve had the “frank exchange of views,” and the ball is not moving.
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