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To: BlueDragon

You lost me when you referenced Jimmy Akin. I consider this “ex-protestant” to be no more Catholic than Scott Hahn.


75 posted on 05/24/2014 7:55:32 AM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

I am forever flabbergasted at some of the asinine answers I see or receive on this forum...

It doesn't matter one whit what you think of those two, I only mentioned Akin's argument out of mercy to Roman Catholic views as to how the translation ended up as it did, not as some basis which all would hinge upon.

Besides...Akin was likely wrong anyway, in that Jerome may have chosen to put it into Latin as "she" would crush the serpent, etc., rather than a "he" would do so (as male gendered "seed of the woman"). BUT--- Jerome did correct himself later, as I will give some citation for below along with other discussion.

Gen 3:15 from the Douay-Rheims is about the ONLY translation nowadays which renders a feminine "she" rather than a "he" will crush the head of the snake, and the snake bruise "her" -- rather than "he" or even a "they" have their heel bruised, with this being for textual reasons rather than some sort of Protestant/Jewish combo plot to frustrate Catholicism...

Did you know that the online Vulgate, at the Vatican site renders the words in question in the masculine rather than the feminine?

Here;

14 Et ait Dominus Deus ad serpentem:
“Quia fecisti hoc, maledictus es
inter omnia pecora
et omnes bestias agri!
Super pectus tuum gradieris
et pulverem comedes cunctis
diebus vitae tuae.

15 Inimicitias ponam inter te et mulierem
et semen tuum et semen illius;
ipsum conteret caput tuum,
et tu conteres calcaneum eius”.

which translates as;

14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent,
"Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed
all cattle
and all wild
On your belly
and dust shalt thou eat all
your life.

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and thy seed and her seed;
he will crush your head,
and thou shalt bruise his heel. "

In previous comment I supplied link to other English translations, so will not here again repeat the same.

The U.S. Bishops use a "they" shall crush the serpent's head.

Even the highest authorities in your own church are against the DR nowadays, at least as far as Gen 3:15 goes, so the answer to the question "how's this for biblical" which you asked while using the DR version of Gen 3:15 for support of Marionism, is still a resounding "no". You will need to look elsewhere than that particular verse for support of the cult to the extent it (the cult) would prefer the texts to support their opinions.

If we look to the Greek texts--- there is not much succor for the cult (of "Mary") there in regards to Gen 3:15, for those texts carry the Greek masculine forms in that verse, with none of this "she" shall be the one business, but rather more uniformly is presented a "he" shall directly crush the head (of the serpent) and have "his" own heel be bruised.

Going to the Hebrew texts -- it is more possible to translate an "it", "he" or even "they" shall crush the head (of the serpent) and themselves be bruised at the heel, which is how the USCCB chose to present translation for that particular verse, with footnotes there explaining their reasoning on theological grounds instead of going into textual/manuscript reasons, which for this particular verse can be more complicated than one may think...

Still, the DR is a lonely outcast nowadays.

You do know that Jerome preferred Hebrew texts for OT translation work (at least he wrote that he did, having mentioned that often) compared to the more than a few Greek versions that were extant in his day? He commented upon/griped about the various Greek versions in many of his letters.

It's a long story, but amid what Jerome termed "Hebraica veritas" or "the Hebrew is truth" when speaking of OT, he did write a note of correction for his own previous use of the feminine rather than masculine or gender neutral, in a book (or booklet) entitled (as translated into English) Hebrew Questions on Genesis saying;

"3:15 It shall watch your head, and you shall watch its heel. More correctly, it has in the Hebrew, 'it will crush your head, and you shall crush its heel.' For our footsteps are indeed shackled by the serpent, 'and the Lord shall crush Satan under our feet swiftly.'" [C.T.R. Hayward,Saint Jerome's Hebrew Questions on Genesis, Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1995, p. 33]

Previously you dissed and dismissed Jimmy Akin (along with Scott Hahn as an "ex-protestant" Marionist that somehow wasn't doing right).

Will you know off-handedly dismiss the RCC "Magesterium" in it's own (perhaps only) official Scripture, along with tossing aside the USCCB and Jerome also -- that "blessed doctor of the Church"?

155 posted on 05/24/2014 11:45:40 PM PDT by BlueDragon (take the firecrackers away from the police)
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