You are quoting Ephesians 4:6, you incompetent, nor is it speaking of the Father alone, but of "God." Your mistake is that you, who accuse me of separating the Godhead, are in fact the one separating the Godhead. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all the same God, not three different Gods. This same language is used of the Son, and also from Father to Son:
From 2 verses below the one you poorly cited:
Eph 4:10 He (Christ) that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.
Col 3:11 Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all.
"But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions." And, "You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end." (Heb 1:8-12)
Notice that the Father not only calls Him God, but continues by declaring "You, Lord," that is, the Son whom He is still speaking with, "laid the foundations of the Earth..."
So much so, that the Son could say to Thomas: “from henceforth ye know him, and HAVE SEEN HIM”; and to Philip: “He that hath SEEN me, hath SEEN the Father”.... The Comforter is the Holy Ghost, which PROCEEDETH FROM the Father. That’s why it’s called the Spirit of God, not God the Spirit.
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all coequal and living. The relationship is thusly: The Father begs from eternity; the Son is eternally begotten; the Holy Spirit proceeds from both. None are created, but all exist in this way from eternity.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... All things were made by Him, and without Him was nothing made that was made." (John 1)
1Co 1:24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
There was never a time in which the Father did not have His wisdom and power, which is Christ Jesus.
The Father begets the Son from eternity, and in salvation He elects men from eternity, which the Son redeems in time. The Son is not the Father, nor does He claim to be the Father, but is always a distinct individual:
Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:3; Eph. 1:2; 6:23; Phil. 1:2; 1 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1, 2; 1 Tim. 1:1, 2; 2 Tim. 1:2; Tit. 1:4; Phm. 3; James 1:1; 2 Peter 1:2; 2 John 3.
These are two persons, though one being. Not one being and person, and two objects with no will or personhood of their own. Christ declares that when you have seen me, you have seen the Father, because He is, as you confess, the image of the Father. However, the image of the Father is also God, His power, His wisdom, and His only begotten, uncreated: Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1; Titus 2:13; Acts 20:28; Rom 9:5; Heb 1:8; 2 Pet 1:8; 1 John 5:20; Heb 1:10 compared with Psalm 102; 1 Peter 2:3 compared with Psalm 34; 1 Pet 3:14-15 compared with Isaiah 8:12-13; Rev. 1:17, 22:13 compared with Isa. 44:6; 1 Tim. 6:15; Rev. 17:14; 19:16; John 1:3; 1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 1:16-17; Heb. 1:2; Rev. 3:14; Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3; There has never been a time that the Father has not had a Son. The Son is not merely an "audio-visual" representation, but is the second member of the Trinity, hence He is both "with" God, and is God, and is in this role from the very beginning, hence He is eternal, and uncreated. The Holy Spirit is not an inanimate object, but is the third member of the trinity, proceeding from both the Father and Son. Hence the Spirit is called both the Spirit of God and of Christ:
Rom_8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Note again: The Holy Spirit is called both the Spirit of God and of Christ, because they are the same.
All three are active, performing their own unique roles in salvation, not one of them being an "it" or a mere "visual":
2Co_13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
And we are commanded to baptize in the name of all three, confirming their equality and personhood:
Mat_28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
If the Son and Holy Spirit are mere created beings, or even just objects, they would not be called God, nor would any one be baptized in their names in all equality.
Do you even realize that God the Father is a Spirit (Jn 4:23,24), that no man hath seen him?
And yet, the scripture explicitly declares that He has been seen, even in human form:
Gen 16:13; Gen 32:30; Exo 24:10-11, Exo 33:14, Exo 33:19-23; Num 12:8; Deu 5:24, Deu 34:10; Jdg 6:22-23, Jdg 13:21-22; Isa 6:5; Joh 1:18; 2Co 3:18, 2Co 4:6; Gal 1:6; Eph 1:17; Col 1:15; 2Ti 1:10; Heb 11:27.
The one seen in all these instances, therefore, must be the Son, who is the same God, while the Father remains invisible.
"He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high." (Hebrews 1:3) Not only does the Father call the Son "God," but He is the visible representation of all His glory, and the Son "upholds the universe by the word of His power." Paul, while on Mars hill made it plain that God is ‘not far from any one of us’. David declared that no matter where he would be, the highest heights or the deepest depths, “Thou art there”.
This is a pointless statement. Christ is omnipresent, as the scripture teaches:
Matt. 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; Eph. 1:23; 4:10; Col. 3:11
Consequently, this also makes Him God, as omnipresence is a divine attribute.
The Son (remember, the one that God has ‘made both Lord and Christ’) was raised by the ‘glory of the Father’ (Rom. 6:4).
This is in reference to Christ as man, who is made "both Lord and Christ." The Word is made flesh, but the Word is from the beginning, and is therefore eternal (John chapter 1). When Christ is risen up and placed above all things, He is returning to where He was before:
Joh_17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
You brought up John 1:4, and I answer it with the Christ’s own explanation (”For as the Father hath LIFE in himself; SO hath he GIVEN to the SON to have LIFE in himself; and hath GIVEN him authority...”. John 5:26,27),
Christ is speaking of the power and authority He received from the Father as man in the giving of eternal life, not of that life and authority that He has as the "Almighty", who was "made flesh, and dwelt among us."
When Paul said in 1 Cor. 8:6: “But to us there is but one God, the Father, OF whom are all things, and we in him;(semi-colon) and one Lord Jesus Christ, BY whom are all things, and we by him.”, was he telling the truth?
Christ is the "power and wisdom of God," and was with the Father "before the world was," and from "the beginning," and so, all things are indeed made by Him and through Him. Not only does this make Christ uncreated (He made all things, and nothing was made without Him), this also makes Christ God, since He is the creator.
In the scriptures, neither Jesus Christ, nor the apostles ever used the phrase ‘God the Son’, only the ‘Son of God’. True or false?
False, since Christ isn't just called the "Son of God," though the Pharisees understood this as declaring equality with God.
Joh_5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
My other verses I've listed reveal a great many things that Christ is called, including "The Mighty God," "The Word was God," and so on and so forth.
The Almighty God is IN Jesus Christ without measure. That’s what he, and his apostles and prophets declare. True or False?
More technically, the Holy Spirit is in Christ:
Luk_4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
But the Spirit is called the Spirit of God and Christ, if you recall.
So, in John 17:1-3, when Jesus Christ calls the Father ‘the only true God’ is he speaking the truth?
Christ also declares that only God is good:
Luk_18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Is Christ good, true or false?
When the Christ said that the Father is in him doing the works (Jn 14:10), was he telling the truth?
Dr. Gill notes that the phrase is "expressive of the sameness of nature in the Father and the Son; of the Son's perfect equality with the Father, since the Son is as much in the Father, as the Father is in the Son."
Is the Son in the Father, true or false?
You are certainly verbose...
First let me clarify how I went total knee-jerk on your quoting of Isaiah 44:6, knowing that you regard there to be a ‘God the Father’ and a ‘God the Son’ in that verse, I resorted to sarcasm, instead of presenting it as I believe it. (I will partly blame that on the fatigue that this week of extensive trucking has given me...and trying to maintain a conversation with my wife while typing. But hey, you make exuses for not answering questions, so I guess I’m entitled to one.)
Compare other verses to Isaiah 44:6:
45:11 Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker.....(the Christ is speaking the Words of his Maker, who dwells in him).
55:5 ...shall run unto thee because of the Lord thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel.
The Son is holy because of the invisible Father that is in him. You can call it ‘my interpretation’, but, that is mostly what you offer, ...interpretations; as when you say the Father is in ‘unity’, but not literally one with Son, and not literally in him, contrary to what the Son spends half of the book of John explaining.
The man Jesus Christ can speak as God the Father because he has been GIVEN the authority to speak those words:
“I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.” And they understood not that he spake to them of the Father. Jn 8:26,27
“..I told you, and you believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me........neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is GREATER than ALL, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are ONE.” Jn 10:35-30
The Jews then wanted to stone him, for they knew that God was not a man. They were right about that, but, they could NOT grasp that the Father is in Christ, giving him all power; giving him the Words and works to prove the annointing.
I honestly don’t know how anyone can read this passage and not see that God the Father is THE omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent source of the Christ power:
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the WORDS I SPEAK unto you I speak NOT of myself: but the FATHER that DWELLETH in me, HE DOETH THE WORKS. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
There is no need to interpret those words, unless one wants to suit a desire for separate ‘persons of ‘God’.
**You are quoting Ephesians 4:6, you incompetent, nor is it speaking of the Father alone, but of “God.”**
You’re interpreting. Then you should put a comma in there where there currently isn’t (in the KJV anyway).
**Eph 4:10 He (Christ) that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.**
That is made possible by God the Father; defined by the Christ as a Spirit (Jn 4:23,24)
The MIND of Christ IS the Father. (remember, the man Christ Jesus said the words were not his own). The Son had his own will, but, it was tied to the flesh, just like ours is. The BIG difference is this: With the Father IN him, he had the power to remain sinless, and do the will of the Father.
**The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all coequal and living. The relationship is thusly: The Father begs from eternity; the Son is eternally begotten; the Holy Spirit proceeds from both. None are created, but all exist in this way from eternity.**
That is what I mean by ‘your interpretations’. “Eternally begotten”....??
“The Holy Spirit proceeds from both”.....Do you mean that one can send the Holy Ghost out on a mission if the other is too busy to?
You see....Jesus Christ HAD to go away, OR the Comforter wasn’t going to come. He had comforted the disciples with his physical presence, fully displaying the power of the Father. “I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you”. The Father is so completely knit with the soul of the Son (they are one), that the Father can share that ‘mind of Christ’ in the baptism of the Holy Ghost (which proceeds from the Father).
**Notice that the Father not only calls Him God, but continues by declaring “You, Lord,” that is, the Son whom He is still speaking with, “laid the foundations of the Earth...”**
Yes, God the Father, who begat the Son, has appointed him heir of ALL things, BY whom (the Son) also he (God the Father) made the worlds. Who (the Son) being the brightness of his (the Father’s) glory, and the express image (the Son) of his (the Father’s) person.
**The Son is not the Father, nor does He claim to be the Father,**
But he claims that the Father is the source of all thing divine.
**but is always a distinct individual:**
The Son is the express image of the invisible God.
Notice, that all the salutations to the saints, call God the Father, and Jesus Christ as Lord. Notice the comma is after ‘Father’, NOT after ‘God’. Or else the salutations would be “God, the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ”; which seems to be the way you portray it.
**However, the image of the Father is also God**
Interpreting again?
“God was IN Christ reconciling the World unto himself”. Jesus Christ says that God the Father is a Spirit. Jn 4:23,24.
And the Son of God told his disciples: “..handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have”. Luke 24:39.
I said: You brought up John 1:4, and I answer it with the Christ’s own explanation (”For as the Father hath LIFE in himself; SO hath he GIVEN to the SON to have LIFE in himself; and hath GIVEN him authority...”. John 5:26,27),
You replied with more ‘yopios’: **Christ is speaking of the power and authority He received from the Father as man in the giving of eternal life, not of that life and authority that He has as the “Almighty”, who was “made flesh, and dwelt among us.”**
I’ll offer an interpretation of ‘made flesh’: “The express image of the invisible God”.
Like I said before, if you believe that the flesh of the Son is a separate and distinct person of God, then you must believe that Mary is the ‘mother of God’.
**And yet, the scripture explicitly declares that He has been seen, even in human form: Gen 16:13; Gen 32:30; Exo 24:10-11, Exo 33:14, Exo 33:19-23; Num 12:8; Deu 5:24, Deu 34:10; Jdg 6:22-23, Jdg 13:21-22; Isa 6:5; Joh 1:18; 2Co 3:18, 2Co 4:6; Gal 1:6; Eph 1:17; Col 1:15; 2Ti 1:10; Heb 11:27. The one seen in all these instances, therefore, must be....the Son, who is the same God, while the Father remains invisible.**
So when the Son says that God the Father is a Spirit, and John, who I certainly trust WAAYYY more than you, declared: NO man hath seen God at any time. 1Jn 4:12
**All three are active, performing their own unique roles in salvation, not one of them being an “it” or a mere “visual”: 2Co_13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. **
So, you have three Spirits in you when you are born again?
Well, I’ll be looking for the book you’re going to write that tells what Spirit can do this thing, but not this or that other thing, which only the other Spirit can do, etc. What Spirit of the three gives the fruit of the Spirit, if thou canst tell? Or maybe they divided them up.
**And we are commanded to baptize in the name of all three, confirming their equality and personhood:**
So, the apostles completely blew it by baptizing in the name of Jesus everywhere they went. That, or they understood that the name of Jesus covers the requirements.
Repeating a command is not necessarily obeying a command: My boss can tell me to “go and deliver that shipment to the customer in the name of the Founder, CEO, and felloworker of this Company. His name is none of those; they’re titles. (His name is on the trucks, too).
**This is in reference to Christ as man, who is made “both Lord and Christ.” The Word is made flesh, but the Word is from the beginning, and is therefore eternal (John chapter 1). When Christ is risen up and placed above all things, He is returning to where He was before: Joh_17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.**
Well, at least you’re getting closer to verses where the Son calls the Father ‘the only true God’. To which you replied:
**Christ also declares that only God is good:**
That’s your answer? Tell me you’re not a politician!
**Luk_18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Is Christ good, true or false?**
I will interpret, since you like to debate that way:
I believe the Lord was testing the young ruler, to see if he would confess to knowing that God was in Christ. How could Christ be good without the Father? But, we don’t have to worry about that.
**False, since Christ isn’t just called the “Son of God,” though the Pharisees understood this as declaring equality with God.**
So, the phrase ‘God the Son’ is used by the Son, and by the Apostles in the scriptures. And what version of the Bible would that be? So, you (and those likeminded, believe that you are better than they at defining God?
**More technically, the Holy Spirit is in Christ: Luk_4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
But the Spirit is called the Spirit of God and Christ, if you recall.**
So, which of the three Spirits (you have indicated the three persons are divine Spirits) is the one which led him into the wilderness?
I said: When the Christ said that the Father is in him doing the works (Jn 14:10), was he telling the truth?
You say: **Dr. Gill notes that the phrase is “expressive of the sameness of nature in the Father and the Son; of the Son’s perfect equality with the Father, since the Son is as much in the Father, as the Father is in the Son.”**
If Gill is using that interpretation to describe the witness of the Son, who said “the Father that DWELLETH IN ME, he doeth the works”, then Gill apparently doesn’t want to take the Son at his word, and has probably made a comfortable living selling his interpretations.
**Is the Son in the Father, true or false?**
Can’t miss on that. Since the Father is omnipresent, the Son is definitely in the Father. And the Father is in Son, GIVING the Son all power in heaven and in earth.
Care to try again on this?
Jesus Christ declared throughout the book of John that EVERY single thing divine is sourced back to the Father. THE CHALLENGE IS FOR YOU: SHOW ME WHERE HE POSSESSSED ONE SINGLE DIVINE ATTRIBUTE THAT DID NOT COME FROM THE FATHER. SHOW ME ONE SINGLE DIVINE ATTRIBUTE THAT THE FATHER RECEIVED FROM THE SON.