“Actually, it is RCs who are always using posting a plethora of pages in servitude to Rome, using FR as a advertising and or promotional news and apologetics service for an elitist church. And a fools mouth calls for strikes (Prv. 18:6) so such arrogance calls for reproof. “
The context of my use of pack of wolves is the litany of FR bible thumbers that get listed in a post to me. I have never posted anything, there is just as much protestant stuff posted here except you guys have hundreds of divergent sects.
You wrote:
“Meaning since the Holy Spirit nowhere titles NT pastors “priests,” out of 150 times hiereus occurs, or shows them engaging in any uniquely sacrificial function, then you must resort to extraBiblical traditions of men.
As i said. Men presuming them know better than God. “
No, men who know a heck of lot more than you do. When you say, know better than God, that implies you read the Bible and you know what God says. That is the of sola scriptura married to sola my own ego!!! What exact Protestant sect do you belong to? My guess, it is one of 2 basic groups[the Calvinist or Arminians [spelling?]. On a related note, those 2 go at each other almost as bad as each go after the Catholics.
You wrote:
“Fatal error. According this logic, the magisterium must always be correct and followed, which effectively nukes the church and replaces it with one not of Scripture. Holding to Scripture, evangelicals have defended most strongly the fundamental truth we both agree on with Nicea, but which basis also requires contention against those which are not.”
I do accept the magisterium as the having the teaching authority. The Alternative is for me to list to who, you???? or maybe some redneck Pastor where I live???? Good grief.
You wrote:
” No it is not, as quite soberly your latter statement refers to membership in a cultic system in which, as explained, you are not to examine the Scriptures in order to ascertain the veracity of RC teaching, but instead a faithful RC has one duty, which is to simply submit to leadership. Which as said, is not how the church began, and which can be explained further if desired. “
Yes it is. So we can play that game all night, You say No, I say yes, should we make a Beatles tune out of this?? Sort of like You say No and I say Yes {you say Hello and I say Goodbye]....Well, your view of cultic is your view, I reject it ex ante, I will not repeat what I already said on the subject,
As for heresies, again, every heresy starts with someone who thinks they Know better and it starts with someone thinking the Holy Spirit inspired them to interpret the Bible correctly. Every last one of them. From 16th Century, Protestantism at the “corporate level” so to speak has continued to fragment, and fragment, and fragment, and it will continue to do so.
Now to come back to Romans 15:16,my Catholic NAB, RSV and Navarre Bible, all translate it as “priestly service for the Gospel” . The Navarre Bible has Jerome’s Latin translation along with it and word used there is “oblatio” which is associated with a solemn offering to God in the context of a Liturgical service. The English word “Oblation” which was directly derived from Oblatio refers to an offering or sacrificial offering and the term refers to the gift to be offered and the act of offering at Mass. So, the “oblatio” [Preperation of the Gifts in modern English Catholic usage] would be the oblation which the priest presents to God, in his name and on behalf of the entire Church; these gifts [bread and wine] are which upon accepting them, God will give to us as the perfect oblation, Jesus Christ his son [taken from the Our Sunday Vistor’s New Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 722, 1998 edition]
So Romans 15:16 in every Catholic Bible I have uses “priestly service of the Gospel” The Douah-Rheims uses “oblation” but I have already covered that given this translation is directly from Saint Jerome’s Latin Vulgate, which used “oblatio” which again is connected to a priest making an offering to God.
Divergent from WHAT?
And so what if different denominations have different names? Since churches or religion does not save, but rather JESUS saves, what difference does it make that one church's name is different from another or that they have different governing boards?
Its not just you, it is many others as well, and i ping others who have said they want to be pinged to threads of interest. Its more an evangelical thing. And i will also ping those who responded to the same post i did, which should cut down in saying the same things to each. ..
I have never posted anything, there is just as much protestant stuff posted here except you guys have hundreds of divergent sects.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. But i rarely see you on these RF threads. Go do a search even on the Catholic keyword and see what you find
No, men who know a heck of lot more than you do. When you say, know better than God, that implies you read the Bible and you know what God says. That is the of sola scriptura married to sola my own ego!!!
Since i never said i know better than God, but that this is what you are saying by laboring to justify titling presbuteros priests when out of the over 150 times archiereus/hiereus occurs in the NT then the Holy Spirit never gives them that title! Which is based upon the cultic premise of Rome's assured veracity, versus the NT church, or even the local SBC.
Thus the question why would a person want to defend kind of cultic presumption, unless it is their security?
I do accept the magisterium as the having the teaching authority. The Alternative is for me to list to who, you????
No, you do not simply accept the magisterium as the having the teaching authority, which Westminster itself upholds, but you uphold implicit assent of faith to a magisterium based upon the premise of assured perpetual infallibility, supposing this is necessary and promised to the stewards of Scripture for assurance of Truth. Which as said, is not how the church began, and which can be explained further if desired.
Yes it is. So we can play that game all night, You say No, I say yes, should we make a Beatles tune
You seem to be getting desperate. So your argument is that an assuredly (if conditionally) infallible magisterium is essential for valid assurance of Truth and to fulfill promises of Divine presence, providence of Truth, and preservation of faith. (Jn. 14:16; 16:13; Mt. 16:18)
And that being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation (oral and written) means that Rome is that assuredly infallible magisterium. Thus those who dissent from the latter are in rebellion to God?
Thus lacking both any Scriptural record or from early testimony, it is yet asserted, "The mere fact that the Church teaches the doctrine of the Assumption as definitely true is a guarantee that it is true.” — Karl Keating, Catholicism and Fundamentalism (San Francisco: Ignatius, 1988), p. 275.
As for heresies, again, every heresy starts with someone who thinks they Know better and it starts with someone thinking the Holy Spirit inspired them to interpret the Bible correctly.
That explains Rome exactly, except she makes it not only individual (the pope) but promotes corporate error.
Now to come back to Romans 15:16,my Catholic NAB, RSV and Navarre Bible, all translate it as “priestly service for the Gospel” . The Navarre Bible has Jerome’s Latin translation along with it and word used there is “oblatio” which is associated with a solemn offering to God in the context of a Liturgical service. The English word “Oblation” which was directly derived from Oblatio refers to an offering or sacrificial offering and the term refers to the gift to be offered and the act of offering at Mass...
So all this to confess the word priest is not there in Romans 15:16 and that hiereus is not the root word used, and that offering sacrifices to God is not a unique function of NT pastors or priests, the latter being described as men who daily "offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins." But which is not the charge given to presbuteros/episkopos, but "Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine." (1 Timothy 4:13) "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." (2 Timothy 4:2) "we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word." (Acts 6:4) "But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;" (Titus 1:3) And the difference btwn the two names reflects the difference, but Rome turns presbuteros into ritualist whose main function is dispensing human flesh for eternal life.
So Romans 15:16 in every Catholic Bible I have uses “priestly service of the Gospel”
Sorry, that part is correct, for as seen by my first reply on this, i was looking at the word for "offering," "prosphora," in "the oblation of the Gentiles" in the DRB, not the word "hierourgeō," (from a compound of sacred toil) rendered "sanctifying" the gospel of God in the DRB, and "ministering" in the KJV, which is what the NAB etc. derived "priestly service" from. In both cases hiereus is not there, nor as the root, but while it may be used all believers are called priests and offer sacrifices, even their own bodies to God. (Rn. 12:1) When the Holy Spirit makes such a manifest consistent distinction btwn hiereus and presbuteros/episkopos then it is presumptuous to ignore or negate it. But which befits Rome.