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To: metmom
OK. If you want to go there, what about the infallibility of the pope and the assumption of Mary?

Were those doctrines heard of in the early church?

Were they not established as doctrine in Vatican 1 and 2?

A common mistake. Church teachings do not originate with the declarations of church councils. These declarations--an exercise of the Extraordinary Magisterium--are only made to clarify what the Church has always believed and taught--the Ordinary Magisterium. You would not hold that the Catholic Church only condemned contraception since 1968 (Humanae Vitae) or taught that only men can be ordained to the priesthood since 1994 (Ordinatio Sacerdotalis), would you? The infallibility of the popes and the Assumption of Mary were part of the ordinary day-to-day teaching of the Church long before the declarations of Vatican I & II.

206 posted on 05/03/2014 7:26:43 AM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius
The infallibility of the popes and the Assumption of Mary were part of the ordinary day-to-day teaching of the Church long before the declarations of Vatican I & II.

Well then, surely the Apostle John who outlived Mary would have taught this important belief, since it is what the Church has always believed and taught-

. I have it on FReeper authority, that all the Apostles were Catholics. Where are these early teachings? The are required to be believed for salvation in the Catholic church, there must be one of the Twelve that wrote on it. John 20:31.

251 posted on 05/04/2014 7:42:31 PM PDT by xone
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To: Petrosius; metmom
OK. If you want to go there, what about the infallibility of the pope and the assumption of Mary? Were those doctrines heard of in the early church?

A common mistake. Church teachings do not originate with the declarations of church councils. These declarations--an exercise of the Extraordinary Magisterium--are only made to clarify what the Church has always believed and taught--the Ordinary Magisterium.

Meaning universally believed, or that some believed based on amorphous oral tradition, but which Rome makes unanimous consent, even if the tradition-based EOs reject the same, as with Papal infallibility and unhindered power? Try to keep the spin to a minimum.

Moreover, where do we see the NT or early church always believing the Assumption in the 1st or 2nd centuries?

288 posted on 05/06/2014 4:06:14 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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