Posted on 04/16/2014 5:43:49 AM PDT by Biggirl
The wooing of religious moviegoers — a delicate operation, as the “Noah” backlash attests — has been ramping up lately, with major players like Ridley Scott and Ben Kingsley mining the Bible for box office gold. But if there’s such a thing as a safe bet in this genre, it’s “Heaven Is for Real,” a Christian sermon that even the most doctrinaire believer can applaud.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
From the Biblegateway website”
“2 Corinthians 12:4
The Message (MSG)
Strength from Weakness
12 1-5 You’ve forced me to talk this way, and I do it against my better judgment. But now that we’re at it, I may as well bring up the matter of visions and revelations that God gave me. For instance, I know a man who, fourteen years ago, was seized by Christ and swept in ecstasy to the heights of heaven. I really don’t know if this took place in the body or out of it; only God knows. I also know that this man was hijacked into paradise—again, whether in or out of the body, I don’t know; God knows. There he heard the unspeakable spoken, but was forbidden to tell what he heard. This is the man I want to talk about. But about myself, I’m not saying another word apart from the humiliations.”
2 Cor 12: 4
“Douay-Rheims Bible
That he was caught up into paradise, and heard secret words, which it is not granted to man to utter. “
Riding a Belgian draft horse, playing capture the flag, His team against Charlemagne’s.
And Amen.
[16] But this is that which was spoken of by the prophet Joel: [17] And it shall come to pass, in the last days, (saith the Lord,) I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams. [18] And upon my servants indeed, and upon my handmaids will I pour out in those days of my spirit, and they shall prophesy. [19] And I will shew wonders in the heaven above, and signs on the earth beneath: blood and fire, and vapour of smoke. [20] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and manifest day of the Lord come. Acts 2:16-20
I suppose the movie “Heaven is for Real’ and the Blood Moon of 2014 are captured above....
You “suppose”? Did Peter “suppose” when he said, “THIS is that which was spoken of”? No, he was speaking by the Holy Spirit when he explained:
“For these are not drunken, as ye suppose; seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel”
Those who were supposing were wrong, and Peter corrected them.
That prophecy was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost. That’s not supposing. We know it’s true because the Holy Spirit tells us so.
Are you saying the “great and manifest day of the Lord” has already come? If the apostles and disciples at Pentecost were living in the “last days”, even more so are we.
Read the book of Joel again. (It’s pretty short.) What was Joel predicting? A chastisement of the Jews for their unfaithfulness, and afterward God’s salvation of and blessings upon the faithful remnant, with destruction upon those who persecuted them.
Then look again at Acts 2 where Peter says, in essence, “this prophecy IS being fulfilled.”
You did not answer my question. Regardless, we look forward to seeing the movie. It should be pretty good, and it is an example of those living in the last days seeing visions and dreaming dreams, much like St. Paul.
As far as I can tell, the Bible doesn’t say for certain whether Joel’s “the last days” refers to the destruction of Jerusalem (as in Matt. 24), or the end of the Jewish age (viz. the coming of the Messiah), or both.
The events Jesus predicted in Matt. 24 have, of course, already happened. And the end of the Jewish age has also already happened.
- The Spirit was “poured forth”. Peter’s “this” was not drunkenness, but the pouring forth of the Spirit upon the apostles; also the prophesy, visions, and dreams which followed (as we find out about later in Acts and elsewhere) - a great outpouring of spiritual blessings and revelations from God, from which we benefit even after their end.
- There was judgment to come, described in common imagery from the prophets. (Again, perhaps the judgment against the Jews, as in Matt. 24. Acts 2:40 seems to support this: “Save yourselves from this perverse generation.”)
- And there was deliverance for those who would seek it. Three thousand sought it that day, and in v. 38 Peter told them how to obtain it.
The prophecies in the book of Joel are very difficult to interpret. The fact that Peter tells us that Pentecost fulfills part of it is helpful. But we belong to the same generation of believers; speaking in tongues, interpreting tongues, being caught up into the empyrean heavens, having visions and dreams, etc... are things to be expected to be found within the Church, but not shared equally by all.
We are looking forward to seeing this movie. The Holy Spirit will speak to us in special ways as needed to help us all get home. However, we must choose life. We must accept the grace, we must cooperate with the redemption that has been wrought for us.
I don’t know what more to say on this subject. But thank you for the discussion, and perhaps our conversational paths will cross again. :-)
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