[skeeter]

And sent his son to be sacrificed in order to save those who were preordained to be saved.

[Dutchboy88]

Of course, much better is that self-manufactured wishfulness that God is up there stroking his beard wondering who is going to be good enough to turn their own lives around and choose me. There he sits, hoping some will pay attention, but unable or unwilling to do anything more because the smart ones (like you) will turn and DESERVE salvation. You guys ought to read the Book...

[frogjerk]

St. Prosper - "of their own will they went out; of their own will they fell, and because their fall was foreknown, they were not predestined; they would however be predestined if they were going to return and persevere in holiness; hence, God's predestination is for many the cause of perseverance, for none the cause of falling away"