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To: ealgeone
Was anyone saved before the crucifixion and resurrection?

An interesting question; some examples that could point to an affirmative answer:

  1. There is Enoch, who did not die but walked with God: and he was no more; for God took him.
  2. There is the fiery furnace and Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego (though this is an admittedly literal sense of 'saved', it is noteworthy because of the appearance of a fourth person with them).
  3. There is the Elijah's being borne away in a whirlwind, after being separated from Elisha by a fiery chariot.
Another thing that is to be considered is that Jesus, as the Word (see the intro of John), was not created but was with God in the beginning (and was God) and by whom all things were made — now, if that is the case then the Son is outside of time (which is a created thing), and if the Son is in someway unbound by time then it is possible that He bodily appeared before he was incarnated.

This sort of idea is, I think, a good side-effect of sci-fi's exploration of time-travel ideas; not to say that we should base our theology on sci-fi, but that sci-fi [or any fiction, really] allows the exploration of ideas that might have theological significance.

Amazed by how few reviewers noticed the Christian implications of Out of the Silent Planet, Lewis quipped to a friend that "any amount of theology can now be smuggled into people's minds under the cover of romance without their knowing it." (link)

506 posted on 03/21/2014 1:35:32 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark; ealgeone
Another thing that is to be considered is that Jesus, as the Word (see the intro of John), was not created but was with God in the beginning (and was God) and by whom all things were made — now, if that is the case then the Son is outside of time (which is a created thing), and if the Son is in someway unbound by time then it is possible that He bodily appeared before he was incarnated.

I agree with you. What you are describing is a "theophany" - an appearance of God to a human; a divine manifestation. We can see this in the burning bush with Moses, the Angel of the Lord that wrestled with Jacob, the "man like unto the Son of God" in the fiery furnace with Daniel's friends, and other incidents spoken of in Scripture. Other religions also have such things in their ideas and lore, but in the case of the true God, who is Spirit, the Son of God is who presents the "face" of God to man. Jesus said, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.". He was speaking the truth.

As for Eagleone's question of those "saved" before Christ's death and resurrection, we can certainly see that those who believed God, their faith was counted as righteousness (see Genesis 15:6 and Romans 4:3 for that exact phrase regarding Abraham). Those righteous souls were kept in Hades (Abraham's bosom/Paradise) until Christ "led captivity captive" and opened the doors of heaven by His precious blood. They are now there in the presence of the Father and Son until Christ returns and:

    "Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory. (I Cor. 15:51-54)

534 posted on 03/21/2014 4:51:14 PM PDT by boatbums (Simul justis et peccator.)
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