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To: boatbums
So God created Satan, who led man to fall from grace and Christ picked Judas, who betrayed Him which led to His arrest and Crucifixion, and you are upset about the Holy Spirit picking men that are human, and have never once taught heresy?

WOW!

In spite of your claims I will pray for you.

318 posted on 03/21/2014 2:38:19 PM PDT by verga (Poor spiritual health is often manifested with poor physical health.)
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To: verga
How come you can't answer my question, Verga? I'll ask it again:

Yes, Jesus picked Judas - he was the one that would betray Him as prophecy said. He created Satan and the fallen angels, too, but Judas was never put in charge of leading believers. Do you actually believe these debauched men were handpicked by God to lead all Christians? Either you have a poor opinion of God or you will have to admit that the Holy Spirit was NOT involved in the selection of these men and other forces were. Take your pick!

As for your claim that none of the DDDP (DEbauched, DEpraved, DEgenerate Popes) ever "taught" heresy, you are, like usual, hedging your words. No matter what gets posted of their many sins and wrong pronouncements that other Popes corrected, reproved or condemned, you will assert that only those doctrines that fall under the heading of ex-cathedra (of which there are the HUGE number of two) actually count. When you are through playing games, let me know. Until then, better pray for yourself, I know I am.

337 posted on 03/21/2014 3:51:15 PM PDT by boatbums (Simul justis et peccator.)
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To: verga; boatbums
So God created Satan, who led man to fall from grace and Christ picked Judas, who betrayed Him which led to His arrest and Crucifixion, and you are upset about the Holy Spirit picking men that are human, and have never once taught heresy?

And as bb pointed out, God did not put any of them in charge of any of His people. Ever.

On the contrary, He has this to say about leadership in the church.....

We are commanded by Paul to not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother who is sexually immoral.

That would included priests who molest children. Instead of allowing them to consecrate the host and serve it to the congregants with those same hands which are committing such an abomination, they should be defrocked and ex-communicated. NOT protected.

1 Corinthians 5:1-13 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.

For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

Then there are these qualifications for elder and deacons, which Catholic try to tell us are really priests.

1 Timothy 3:1-13 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain. They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things. Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well. For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

Titus 1:5-9 This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you—if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

340 posted on 03/21/2014 4:51:23 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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