Posted on 03/06/2014 6:06:04 AM PST by Ex-Episcopalian
I would like to know what FReepers think of Joyce Meyer, the prolific speaker, author and teacher. I write book reviews for my church, and I worked on a review of "God Is Not Mad At You". A friend at church told me that Meyer's theology is very controversial, so I asked my pastor about it. He said that he would not want to promote a book by Meyer because of some things she has said, for example, Jesus went to hell to pay for our sins, was forgiven by God, and was the first born-again man. I know that is wrong because the payment for our sins was full and final on the Cross, Jesus did not have to be forgiven for anything, and was certainly not born again. We are born again. Any comments on this or on Meyer in general? Thank you.
So, just your thoughts, are you saying that Joyce Meyer is a donkey?
I’ve read all 66 books of the King James Bible a number of times. You should read I Timothy 3. Then come back here, and show me your contortionist skills. I want to see how you mold seemingly clear scripture, with thousands of years of biblical interpretation, by godly biblical scholars, into your postmodernist worldview.
No, the Bible is clear on this. The men I listen to are the ones who proclaim God’s Word as it is written. That’s why I listen to them.
Yah'shua gives mankind a direct command I would recommend reflection on YHvH's WORD. Seek the Face of YHvH in His WORD. Interesting.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
pertaining to the topic of this thread
i.e. If you have sin in your heart do not stone others.
you seem to think this commandment is not interesting.
Do not seek after the princes of this world.
Have you ever visited the Vatican? My God, the place is a big as Versailles, and the art work is worth TRILLIONS. BTW-—I have NO PROBLEM with any of this. I think it’s great and I loved seeing it for myself. By the same token, I have no problem with the fact that Joyce Meyer is extremely successful. So what? She donates gazillions to charity every year. I have no problem with wealthy and successful people, Catholic or Protestant oe=r any other religion. We need more successful people in this world of ours. We need more successful and wealthy people. I’m tired of hearing about trickle down economics from the Pope and all of the “social justice” crap were a spoon fed in Mass.
That I’m a hypocrite is true, make no mistake about that. That doesn’t, however, change what I said about Joyce Meyer. Which needs to be said.
Have a wonderful journey on the wide road.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
NO. Joyce is not my cup of tea. NOT because she is a woman, but, because she rails on her words and works sometimes a whole scripture to death. Mostly she just picks a couple of pertinent words to rail on about as though what she has to say trumps what is written.
I’ve read all 66 books of the King James Bible a number of times. You should read I Timothy 3. Then come back here, and show me your contortionist skills. I want to see how you mold seemingly clear scripture, with thousands of years of biblical interpretation, by godly biblical scholars, into your postmodernist worldview.
ITimothy 3:1 This is a true saying, (NOT a LAW) *IF* a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work."
Sometimes the two letter word IF makes all the difference in the instruction. It does NOT say anything about IF a woman desire the office of a bishop. The instruction is clearly to a 'man's' desires. There is NO order/law prohibiting God from using whomever He chooses. Just is NOT there.
No, the Bible is clear on this. The men I listen to are the ones who proclaim God’s Word as it is written. That’s why I listen to them.
Well, good for you. I keep Christ's Words and warnings as my 'veil' of protection. Now, what was Christ continuous warning regarding the end times..... LET no MAN deceive you.. even those calling themselves Christ-man.
No your wrong. If you care so much about the poor, sell as much as you can that you own [save enough to be self sufficient] and give it to the poor yourself. Why worry about what the Catholic Church should do. Do it yourself!!!!!
And again, the art work is not a cash flow, nor are the Churches built 1500 years ago. They are there for the Glory of God. When St. John Lateran was built in the 4th century, or when Michelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel in the 16th century, do you think they were thinking or worrying about people in today’s world who see those as hmmmmm, assets to make money off of. So who should own the artwork of Michelangelo, some rich country club protestant WASP, some secular Jewish person, some cafeteria Catholics like the Kennedy’s, some rich Oil Shiek, Who should the Pope sell Michelangelo’s art work too? And once it gets in some individuals hands, then what, for the next whatever years, some rich guys keep selling it to other rich guys and the masses never get to see such art.
The Church books, for which you speak, do look like you suggest, ie. in terms of cash flows in and Cash flows out. But to Sell the Churches and artwork which reflects the labor and dedication and great and wonderful work of countless Catholics down thru the centuries is nonsense.
I should probably use a different tact in these “debates”. I just get irritated. If you were here in front of me, I probably would use different words. My position wouldn’t change though.
I might try to get you to really understand how you arrived at your position. It’s extra biblical. Why didn’t Spurgeon share your position? He had the same bible as you. Did you figure something out that Spurgeon didn’t because you’re able to dissect the word “If”? Had you made your claim in the 1850’s, you would be have been in a small minority of bible scholars. Among bible scholars who didn’t ascribe to textual criticism, you would have been alone.
This really speaks to a broader issue than woman preachers. Should we allow culture to change the way we interpret scripture? Shouldn’t we look critically at culture’s role in our interpretations?
My mom used to love watching JM and for some reason I just could not stand her (mid-90s). Channel surfing a year ago, I stumble on JM and thought ok I will listen again after nearly 20 years. Quite frankly, she has changed alot in that time. Alot more humble, self depricating and she has told about how she was 20 years ago (and found that is why I couldn’t stand her).
Look every pastor/preacher has some quirky hangup about some scripture or piece of theology and then there some who operate too much in error. I don’t think JM has reached that point.
Jesus said to the thief, "Today you will be with me in paradise"
hey Trapped...
when you use superlatives like “trillions” or “gazillions” pejoratively to describe ANY group,
you are laying down the classic RED HERRING.
PS I am sure that you don’t realize how much you expose about your true self when you post - I sincerely doubt that you are truly Catholic - you just think you are.
Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam
Lurking’
The scripture do not say that Jesus didn't have the ability to sin. The scriptures that mention Jesus being tempted support the idea that He had the ability to sin. Yet, after being tempted, He didn't sin.
Consider Adam, who was created without a sin nature, yet was able to sin, and did sin. When created, Adam was fully human without sin. Being fully human does not mean having a sinful nature.
Jesus said to the thief, "Today you will be with me in paradise"
The hell He endured was on the cross.
Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me. Didn’t know we had to be so formal around here.
And....btw....I am a practicing Catholic. I attend Mass twice a week. I serve Holy Communion at my church. I am a 4th degree member of the Knights of Columbus. If you want excommunicate me, go ahead.
just saying there is a disconnect between what you post and how a Catholic would expect one of the faithful would think.
you display a lack of understanding and charity, but then I’m old school when it comes to excommunication.
AMDG
Well....some people including me like to think for OURSELVES.
In our Church, the Archbishop said we should all support the comprehensive immigration bill which passed the US Senate.
Sorry,I don’t support that and I have taken issue with other positions advocated by Church leaders.
And the first requirement just to 'see' the kingdom of God is to be 'born from above'. The fallen angels refused to take this flesh journey and they will NOT see the kingdom of God. (Book of Jude) John 3:13 explains the instruction Christ was giving Nicodemus.
And it was NOT a new 'gospel', as per the question Christ had for Nicodemus in John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Actually, I need to know what God says. And Christ did say in Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. This was said before one jot or tittle of the so called New Testament, ever got placed on plant fibers or animal skins. Sadly the majority of Christians are starved to know what God had His holy prophets pen.
Paul reiterates what Christ declared, ICorinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
I cannot think of anything Written in the New that is not a second witness to what God had His holy prophets write down.
Ecclesiastes 12 is one place wherein Nicodemus as a master of Israel should have known regarding when life begins, and what Christ was instructing. And I believe that Christ knew very well there would be an off-shoot in His name whose brand would be 'born again'.
re: “Consider Adam, who was created without a sin nature, yet was able to sin, and did sin. When created, Adam was fully human without sin. Being fully human does not mean having a sinful nature.”
I appreciate how you put that. Adam WAS indeed created without a sin nature, but had the freedom to choose to sin. Jesus was also born without a “sin nature”, but was also had the freedom to sin, yet He didn’t - that’s how He is the Second Adam.
Thank you for helping to clear that up for me. God bless you.
Doesn’t matter. The Pope rules the Vatican and runs the Catholic Church. No religious leader in the world commands such power. He even has the Swiss Guards, overseas a huge bank, has newspapers, radio stations, his own country. Not to mention a huge seaside retreat. Saying the Pope doesn’t own the Vatican is like saying the Queen doesn’t own Buckingham Palace or that Louis XIV didn’t own Versailles. BTW-—I have no issue with any of this. It’s fine with me. And I have no problem with mega-Protestant churches either. I have no problem with wealth and riches. I DO have a problem only when GOVERNMENT lays claim to other people’s wealth and riches.
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