Posted on 02/07/2014 6:11:36 AM PST by CynicalBear
There are going to be a lot of disappointed pre-tribbers when the tribulation starts because they will be going through hard times.
Pre-trib is a lie of Satan to pull the faithful away from their stand with the Christ Their get out of Trib free card will not be punched and they will have to ride the train to the end. The Tribulation is a test to winnow out the true faithful who will get to sit in the throne room with Christ.
Not scoffing just totally disagreeing. And I’m Catholic.
I find it interesting that you have no scriptural counter to the views expressed in the article but simply a visceral hate or fear of the concept.
Now you roll out “hate and fear”. You illustrate my point better than i did. I am not going to roll out scripture to argue a particular point of view.
You are very quick to brand me a heretic. It only took you two posts.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
If the rapture allows us to escape tribulation it’s a tad late for a multitude of sincere Christians. The arrogance of the developed nations thinking after living in the lap of luxury for decades they will escape persecution is offensive at the least. Look at the apostles lives, read some history. We will escape the wrath of Yahovah not the tribulation of the world.
None of these passages speak to the tribulation. Pre-trib is biblically bankrupt.
Of course there is. But scripture makes more sense to me with the pre trib view.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Well stated. I attend a Bible church which I love the people. However, we have been scattered because of a pastor and members that were 100% sure of their doctrinal stance. Both sided in my opinion acted as you describe. God’s word is the bottom line. All the “understanding” in my opinion again, should be held loosely and humbly under God. I believe we will have many surprises when He takes us home and/or reveals himself on this earth.
I did what? Where did you get that from?
If I simply look at the word and it meanings, I note that a Catching up of the saints is going to happen sometime. There has been a recent disagreement as to whether the “falling away” as depicted in Thessalonians meant a world falling away and becoming more lawless or whether the term from the Greek means a ‘catching up’ of Saints prior to the revelation of the “son of perdition”. ( Contextual comparisons with other scriptures and looking at what Christ said about the ‘last days’ suggest that a general collapse of all standards and the growth of utter depraved lawlessness prior to the revelation of the Son of Perdition should be what the term ‘falling away’ is describing)
I know that the last days will be like the Days of Noah because that is also going to be when the Son of Man comes.
Revelation speaks of a lot of Saints being killed by their refusal to take part in the beast System(Beast, false prophet, image of beast and their forced worship of same/taking of mark as well).
Christ has said the timing for his coming is kept secret, though he does give up hints as to about the time we should expect him.
We know that certain parts of the God’s word and revelation as stated in Daniel and Revelation are kept “sealed” until the latter days. So there are still some surprises in store for the saints living in these latter days.
We see that Israel is a nation, when for centuries many “scoffed” that such a thing could ever happen again.
I also read that “we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the Last Trumpet”. I read the “Dead in Christ shall rise first, and then the rest of us will be caught up to meet him in the middle of the air, and there we will be, forever with him”.
What I don’t read is an exact timelime, and I suspect this is deliberate. Not just to cloud Satan’s plans, but to test his Saints. Will we be ready and watching, will the “son of Man, when coming, find faith upon the Earth?”
So I don’t deny the rapture, I don’t deny that it might or might not be a pretrib, post trib, mid trib or any kind of “trib’. But what ever “trib” it does happen with, I’m hoping for prime “rib” at the Feast of the Marriage supper of the Lamb! Praise the Lord! Amen!
Of course there will be tribulation for Christians. The tribulation caused by Satan is vastly different than the tribulation caused by the wrath of God. That distinction needs to be made.
At least in your view they don’t.
Who is denying?
“visceral hate and fear of the subject” implying grave spiritual issues.
Ah! So it was perceived or assumed deal. Not on my part since I was simply making an observation.
“Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience”
The children of disobedeince are going to be the ones who fall away from Christ when the tribulation begins. The ones who hold out their hands for the mark of the beast. What will you do when your children are starving and you are standing in the ration line?
Scripture actually say those who haven’t turned to Christ.
Colossians 3:6 5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: 7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
>> What will you do when your children are starving and you are standing in the ration line?<<
Nearly 100% of our sustenance comes from God and right here off of this land.
You write about study but you do not know anything about Torah and the Feasts of G_D. The New Testament was written by Jews for Jews that only knew Torah.(Lev.23:2) Yeshua lived inside the Torah and spoke from Torah every day of his life. It is to bad the church has followed the lie of Satan that the Feasts of the Lord are put away.
As for no man knowing the time please look at the Feast of Yom Teruah (trumps). Two men stood at the gate of the city and when the new moon rose they would make witness to the high priest. Then he would call that the trump would sound the beginning of the feast. As this was over a two day period no man knew the day or the time. Any Jew that heard Yeshua speak would have known what he spoke of.
I should have connected the sentence better with my last sentence. I had been remembering some folks arguing in other discussions about how the rapture was really kind of an end of the age thing that happens when surviving bands of Christians and the dead in Christ are sought out and caught up, then return with Christ when he sets up his Kingdom. They seem to be arguing against it being a distinctive event that shatters the world consciousness in a way that a Pretrib rapture would certainly do, for example were it to happen today. For some, the rapture is more like a minor mop up action...like oh yeah, the earth is now my foot stool, lets get my sheep and lets have a feast!
Anyway that was a slightly different conversation, but I let it mess up what I was trying to say. I did not mean to say anyone was “denying”, just that I was trying to emphasize that I had no major opinion as to the timing of the tribulation, just asserting my belief that a rapture is going to happen at some point...like the Bible says!
So let everyone else argue about “trib’s”, I’ll just look forward to eating prime “rib” at the marriage feast of the Lamb!
BUT--I must say that this whole concept of a doctrine being "veiled" until someone "discovers" it hundreds of years later sounds like an excuse to create new doctrines. The creation of new doctrine is profoundly anti-conservative. Where will it stop? How many more new doctrines will be invented and then declared to have been "veiled" for millennia? Of course, the ultimate "veiled doctrine" was chrstianity itself, so it's kind of hard to understand why anyone would defend that particular innovation while attacking lesser ones.
Don't get me wrong, though; at least this type of innovation still recognizes (in theory) the concept of eternal, unchanging supernatural truth. It is still much to be preferred to liberal innovationism as practiced by the Catholic and mainline Protestant churches. And again, I honor and salute the pre-tribs' support of Jews and Israel.
Kind of funny to find someone so hostile to "Hebrew roots" who isn't anti-Israel, though.
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