According to Scripture (Sola Scriptura)

http://www.catholic.com ^ | Tim Staples

[NKP_Vet]

"If a teaching isn’t explicit in the Bible, then we don’t accept it as doctrine!" That belief, commonly known as sola scriptura, was a central component of all I believed as a Protestant. This bedrock Protestant teaching claims that Scripture alone is the sole rule of faith and morals for Christians. Diving deeper into its meaning to defend my Protestant faith against Catholicism about twenty years ago, I found that there was no uniform understanding of this teaching among Protestant pastors and no book I could read to get a better understanding of it.

What role does tradition play? How explicit does something have to be in Scripture before it can be called doctrine? Does Scripture tell us what is absolutely essential for us to believe as Christians? How can we determine the canon using sola scriptura? All these questions and more pointed to the central question: Where is sola scriptura itself taught in the Bible?

[redleghunter]

Wow, this thread still going on?

[roamer_1]

Many prophets? Where are their books? Don't prophets usually write things down?

No. It would do you well to understand what a prophet is. Fruit of the lips, stands in the breach.

What about the apostles. Have we been getting more of them, too? Where are their books?

No. It would do you well to understand what apostles are too. The ones sent forth.

Didn't the true Saints receive the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost, or later from one who did, and were able to perform real miracles?

I think there were saints Lonnnng before the cross. I think there was 'the congregation' long before the cross too.

I am curious: how do you interpret these:

"Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"" (Mat 24:3 NKJV)

"Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place." (Mat 24:34 NKJV)

The same way I do every prophecy. Immediate fullfilment validates the prophet... intermediate fulfillment(s)... Final fulfillment. Unless you can prove to me that the whole of the prophecy is completely and perfectly fulfilled, I will still await it's end. No doubt I see the prophecy fitting in a much wider scope than you do.

[CynicalBear]

>>Elijah, has now a resurrect Body of flesh and bone.<<

Um…..No he ain’t. He was and was taken up in a whirlwind without dying so he can’t be resurrected. He won’t die untill after he witnesses during the tribulation. Scripture says Elijah's return is prophesied "before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord" That hasn’t happened yet.

[restornu]

Excuse me today he has a resurrected body I know he was translated but at the time the offer did not exist for resurrection!

[CynicalBear]

>>Wow, this thread still going on?<<

Well yeah! We ain’t solved all the worlds problems yet and theys still error to be corrected. Obstinate them error folks are. Whacho been doin? Sleepin er somthin? :-)

[CynicalBear]

LOL Ya gotta die to get resurrected. He ain’t died yet.

[CynicalBear]

If it walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck…..

[CynicalBear]

It’s a duck!

[roamer_1]

[roamer_1:]How that might answer your question might be an interesting exercise for you... Especially if one considers Jerusalem as ‘Babylon’ in one aspect, and the undeniable inheritor of the Babylonian beast empires (Daniel) as another. Where those two intersect..

I don’t understand how relates to interpreting the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

???

Your question was:

"Would you say that is the same city as the former? If not, then was Jerusalem's blood (1.1 million killed) in vain?" -src

[redleghunter]

The same way I do every prophecy. Immediate fullfilment validates the prophet... intermediate fulfillment(s)... Final fulfillment. Unless you can prove to me that the whole of the prophecy is completely and perfectly fulfilled, I will still await it's end. No doubt I see the prophecy fitting in a much wider scope than you do.

Indeed. Well put. Bible Prophecy 101 right there above. One only has to read Isaiah to see the 'model' you are talking about.

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>John the Revelator saw Jerusalem coming down<<<

Actually, this is what is written:

"… Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God," (Rev 21:9-14 KJV)

Where is that "great and high mountain" located?

"And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel." (Rev 21:15-17 KJV)

It will have to be a really big mountain to hold a city like that. Let's do some calculations:

     12000 furlongs / 8 furlongs/mile = 1500 miles

Even calculating the 1500 miles as the perimeter, each side would be

      &nbsp1500 miles / 4 sides = 375 miles per side.

So the minimum length of a side is 375 miles, and the max is 1500 miles. That leaves out any mountain in Israel. That leaves out Everest! LOL!

As I have written many times, New Jerusalem is a spiritual city, and mount Sion, that it sits on, is a spiritual mountain. They are mentioned here:

"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant..." (Heb 12:22-24 KJV) You also wrote:

>>>The heavenly Temple, if it follows the pattern of the earthly Jerusalem, sits in it's midst.<<<

There is no temple in New Jerusalem:

"And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it." (Rev 21:22 KJV)

There is a spiritual temple of which we, as Christians, are a small part. The foundations, and the priests to the high priest, are the elect of Israel (Rev 14 & 20), which consists of the remnant of the chosen ones (Israel) and the holy men of old:

"Now therefore ye [Jews and Gentiles] are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." (Eph 2:19-22 KJV)

Jesus is the chief cornerstone (above) and the high priest (below: )

"But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" (Heb 9:11-14 KJV)

If you look at the "tense", you will see that all present tense, that is, they were already in existence in the days of the apostles.

Philip

[redleghunter]

Whacho been doin? Sleepin er somthin? :-)

Wish:) Dealing with atheists and JEDP adherants on another site.

[CynicalBear]

Roamer does get a few things right don’t he!!!

<- ducks from rocks being thrown by Roamer! Hah!!! Missed me!

[CynicalBear]

Ooooo! That’s gotta be fun! Not sure I want to go there.

[redleghunter]

LOL on the rocks. Yes, Mr. roamer has been waxing poetic here today. His explanation of the wide scope of fulfilling scriptures brings me back to Genesis where God stretches out the heavens.

[right way right]

Its some kind of contest that helps converts people into believing in Jesus.
I think?

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>No. It would do you well to understand what a prophet is. Fruit of the lips, stands in the breach.<<<

>>>No. It would do you well to understand what apostles are too. The ones sent forth.<<<

Is that an opinion, or do you have any scripture that we can reference?

>>>I think there were saints Lonnnng before the cross. I think there was 'the congregation' long before the cross<<<

Certainly, in the days of Moses there were 10,000 mentioned; and some on the day of Christ's resurrection. But I didn't make myself clear: Were there any Saints around, with the power of the Holy Spirit, after the destruction of Jerusalem? I haven't found a single one in my research.

>>>The same way I do every prophecy. Immediate fullfilment validates the prophet... intermediate fulfillment(s)... Final fulfillment. Unless you can prove to me that the whole of the prophecy is completely and perfectly fulfilled, I will still await it's end. No doubt I see the prophecy fitting in a much wider scope than you do.<<<

I understand. You do not believe that Jesus meant "this" generation to necessarily be the generation of the disciples he was replying to. That is a common belief, but not mine.

Philip

[CynicalBear]

LOL We can only put the truth of the gospel out there. It’s those who God is calling who will read and hear.

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>Philip dear, Elijah, has now a resurrect Body of flesh and bone.<<<

I know that with God all things are possible. But I also know that some things are not likely. I posted the following at an earlier time. This is Paul and Peter on the matter:

Paul compared our two body states--natural vs spiritual--to terrestial vs celestial bodies :

"So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." (1 Cor 15:42-44)

So, Paul says, there is a "bodily" resurrection: but not of the natural body:

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." (1 Cor 15:50)

"For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." (1 Cor 15:53-54)

Peter said essentially the same thing:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you," (1 Pet 1:3-4)

"Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever." (1 Pet 1:22-24)

I am not exactly certain where the notion of a bodily resurrection of the carnal flesh originated. There is a short passage in Job alluding to this, which I believe was mistranslated. In the King James Version (which I read almost exclusively) the passage reads:

"For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me." (Job 19:25-27)

The American Standard Version translates verse 26 to:

"And after my skin, [even] this [body], is destroyed, Then without my flesh shall I see God;" (Job 19:26)

One of those translations of verse 26 is, without a doubt, wrong! Therefore, I will go with Peter and Paul.

Philip

[restornu]

LOL Ya gotta die to get resurrected. He ain’t died yet.

***

Excerpt

We learn from latter-day revelation that Elijah held the sealing power of the Melchizedek Priesthood. He appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration in company with Moses (also translated) and conferred the keys of the priesthood on Peter, James, and John (Matt. 17:3).

He appeared again, in company with Moses and others, on April 3, 1836, in the Kirtland (Ohio) Temple and conferred the same keys upon Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. All of this was in preparation for the coming of the Lord, as spoken of in Mal. 4:5–6 (D&C 110:13–16). As demonstrated by his miraculous deeds, the power of Elijah is the sealing power of the priesthood by which things bound or loosed on earth are bound or loosed in heaven. Thus the keys of this power are once again operative on the earth and are used in performing all the ordinances of the gospel for the living and the dead

I am just passing this on I know many will feel the need to
feel defensive which I understand and appreciate those positions.