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To: daniel1212

“Resorting to ad hominem attacks and attributing motive (bigotry!) in lieu of an argument is a sign of desperation, but in light of the evidence this kind of response indicates it applies to the accuser.”

Once one gets through the nonsense, the semantic content of that sentence reduces to, “So’s your old lady.”

The remark to which it refers is not an ad hominem attack, nor does it attribute motive. It is, however, an accurate description of your modus operandi—which is to say, of your actions.

The Holy Father is a man who temporarily occupies a post within the Church. Quote whom you may, it remains a fact that the sinful men who commit the actions we’re discussing are acting without the sanction of the Church and against her teachings.

Your refusal to admit what is before your eyes is not heroic, or even principled, but only obdurate.

“In the eyes of the traditionalist wing of the Church, however, Kennedy should have been asking the Pope for forgiveness. The Vatican’s official newspaper L’Osservatore Romano reported Kennedy’s death, praising his work on civil rights and fighting poverty, but noted that his record was marred by his stance on abortion.”
http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1919064,00.html

“The subsequent response from a papal aide offering Benedict’s prayers for his health, according to a veteran ambassador to the Holy See, was likely of a pro forma nature. Such letters are typically handled either by the office of the sostituto, the No. 2 official in the Secretary of State’s office or by the Pope’s private secretary. “It’s very rare to have a letter with the Pope’s own signature,” says the diplomatic source. In any case, coming in July, it was clearly not a response to Kennedy’s death.”
http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1919651,00.html

Just so people aren’t further confused, though, let’s look at the blessing that the Holy Father conveyed to the dying Ted Kennedy.

“He (Pope Benedict) was saddened to know of your illness, and has asked me to assure you of his concern and his spiritual closeness. He is particularly grateful for your promise of prayers for him and for the needs of the universal Church.

“The Holy Father has read the letter which you entrusted to President Barack Obama, who kindly presented it to him during their recent meeting. His Holiness prays that in the days ahead you may be sustained in faith and hope, and granted the precious grace of joyful surrender to the will of God our merciful Father. He invokes upon you the consolation and peace promised by the Risen Savior to all who share in His sufferings and trust in His promise of eternal life.

“Commending you and the members of your family to the loving intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Holy Father cordially imparts his Apostolic Blessing as a pledge of wisdom, comfort and strength in the Lord.”

No reasonable person would interpret that boilerplate response to a request for prayers as condoning Kennedy’s many crimes. On the contrary, the Holy Father prays that Kennedy will be granted the precious grace of joyful surrender to the will of God our merciful Father.” IOW, that Kennedy will repent before it’s too late.

The Holy Father decided that honey would have a better chance of working than bile. Pope (emeritus) Benedict is very wise.


366 posted on 04/14/2014 10:23:31 AM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: dsc; metmom; boatbums; Elsie
The remark to which it refers is not an ad hominem attack, nor does it attribute motive. It is, however, an accurate description of your modus operandi—which is to say, of your actions.

My "actions" consist of stating substantiated facts and what is before my eyes versus your simply denials, and yet charge me with a refusal to admit what is before your eyes due being stubborn, which is an ad hominem attack that attributes an unwarranted unwillingness to yield, on other words, what some call bigotry, which charge is often resorted to by RCs when faced with facts that impugn Rome.

The Holy Father is a man who temporarily occupies a post within the Church. Quote whom you may, it remains a fact that the sinful men who commit the actions we’re discussing are acting without the sanction of the Church and against her teachings.

Quote yourself as you may, but you are simply denying the fact that as actions show what one believes, Rome is sanctioning liberal Catholicism by refusing for decades, among other things, to excommunicate even notorious public RCs who openly deny basic RC moral teaching. And which traditionalist RCs demand. Denying this does not make it go away.

Your refusal to admit what is before your eyes is not heroic, or even principled, but only obdurate.

Are you talking to yourself or your church?

In the eyes of the traditionalist wing of the Church, however, Kennedy should have been asking the Pope for forgiveness.

But which was not how Ted - whose hands were red with the blood of the babies whose blood he shed, as well as deaths caused by sodomites, whose "rights" he supported - was treated by Rome.

The subsequent response from a papal aide offering Benedict’s prayers for his health, according to a veteran ambassador to the Holy See, was likely of a pro forma nature. Such letters are typically handled either by the office of the sostituto, the No. 2 official in the Secretary of State’s office or by the Pope’s private secretary. “It’s very rare to have a letter with the Pope’s own signature,” says the diplomatic source. In any case, coming in July, it was clearly not a response to Kennedy’s death.”

Of course it was not a response to his death - he has yet to die - but it was in response to Ted's letter to the pope, and expresses the pope's personal interaction with its contents, response. and regardless of the nature of the letter, in which there is no repentance or request for forgiveness expressed, just the generic "fallen short through human failings" concession, whiler impudently asserting, "I have never failed to believe and respect the fundamental teachings of my faith."

And rather than rebuke, the response expresses none and instead it expresses the pope's appreciation for Ted's prayers (not quite "lifting up holy hands") and giving his apostolic blessing.

Thus all you can do is plead the postulated pro forma nature of a response hand-delivered in July by President Obama, which interacts with its contents as relying the popes response, versus something like a formal official signed reply. Yet the fact is that the latter is what is lacking, and the former is what we have, along with a church funeral, thus interpreting in practical terms what Rome means by its formal teaching!

The hearers of truth look for the interpretation by how the teachers of it apply it in their own lives.

His Holiness prays that in the days ahead you may be sustained in faith and hope,...

No reasonable person would interpret that boilerplate response to a request for prayers as condoning Kennedy’s many crimes. On the contrary, the Holy Father prays that Kennedy will be granted the precious grace of joyful surrender to the will of God our merciful Father.” IOW, that Kennedy will repent before it’s too late.

Rather, that is an interpretation which is required because the leader of the Christian world" is thankful for the prayers of a man in mortal sin, whom he hopes will be sustained in faith, and is unwilling to make it clear that Kennedy is a damned + destitute sinner on his unholy way to Hell.

You think this boilerplate nuanced prayer is going to convict a politician who thinks he never failed to believe and respect the fundamental teachings of his faith? He would thus easily see himself as being in surrender to the will of God, sharing in Christ's sufferings.

Instead your interpretation implicitly indicts the pope of counting a prohomosexual murderer as a member of the church, expressly commending him for his prayers while not being able or willing to express his disapproval of Ted in any clear manner!

The Holy Father decided that honey would have a better chance of working than bile. Pope (emeritus) Benedict is very wise.

Rather, wisdom is seeing how the apostles deal with leaders. (Acts (Acts 4:1-22; 24:22-24) The fact that RC must resort to this type of spin simply reveals the moral impotence of Rome, and her implicit sanction of liberal RCs as being members.

367 posted on 04/14/2014 12:02:35 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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