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Sola Scriptura – An Unbiblical Recipe for Confusion
Tim Staples' Blog ^ | January 18, 2014 | Tim Staples

Posted on 01/25/2014 6:51:38 AM PST by GonzoII

Sola Scriptura – An Unbiblical Recipe for Confusion

Sola scriptura was the central doctrine and foundation for all I believed when I was Protestant. On a popular level, it simply meant, “If a teaching isn’t explicit in the Bible, then we don’t accept it as doctrine!” And it seemed so simple. And yet, I do not recall ever hearing a detailed teaching explicating it. It was always a given. Unchallenged. Diving deeper into its meaning, especially when I was challenged to defend my Protestant faith against Catholicism, I found there to be no book specifically on the topic and no uniform understanding of this teaching among Protestant pastors.

Once I got past the superficial, I had to try to answer real questions like, what role does tradition play? How explicit does a doctrine have to be in Scripture before it can be called doctrine? How many times does it have to be mentioned in Scripture before it would be dogmatic? Where does Scripture tell us what is absolutely essential for us to believe as Christians? How do we know what the canon of Scripture is using the principle of sola scriptura? Who is authorized to write Scripture in the first place? When was the canon closed? Or, the best question of all: where is sola scriptura taught in the Bible? These questions and more were left virtually unanswered or left to the varying opinions of various Bible teachers.

The Protestant Response

In answer to this last question, “Where is sola scriptura taught in the Bible?” most Protestants will immediately respond as I did, by simply citing II Tm. 3:16:

All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

“How can it get any plainer than that? Doesn’t that say the Bible is all we need?” Question answered.

The fact is: II Timothy 3—or any other text of Scripture—does not even hint at sola scriptura. It says Scripture is inspired and necessary to equip “the man of God,” but never does it say Scripture alone is all anyone needs. We’ll come back to this text in particular later. But in my experience as a Protestant, it was my attempt to defend this bedrock teaching of Protestantism that led me to conclude: sola scriptura is 1) unreasonable 2) unbiblical and 3) unworkable.

Sola Scriptura is Unreasonable

When defending sola scriptura, the Protestant will predictably appeal to his sole authority—Scripture. This is a textbook example of the logical fallacy of circular reasoning which betrays an essential problem with the doctrine itself. One cannot prove the inspiration of a text from the text itself. The Book of Mormon, the Hindu Vedas, writings of Mary Baker Eddy, the Koran, and other books claim inspiration. This does not make them inspired. One must prove the point outside of the text itself to avoid the fallacy of circular reasoning.

Thus, the question remains: how do we know the various books of the Bible are inspired and therefore canonical? And remember: the Protestant must use the principle of sola scriptura in the process.

II Tim. 3:16 is not a valid response to the question. The problems are manifold. Beyond the fact of circular reasoning, for example, I would point out the fact that this verse says all Scripture is inspired tells us nothing of what the canon consists. Just recently, I was speaking with a Protestant inquirer about this issue and he saw my point. He then said words to the effect of, “I believe the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth as Jesus said in Jn. 16:13. The Holy Spirit guided the early Christians and helped them to gather the canon of Scripture and declare it to be the inspired word of God. God would not leave us without his word to guide us.”

That answer is much more Catholic than Protestant! Yes, Jn. 16:13 does say the Spirit will lead the apostles—and by allusion, the Church—into all truth. But this verse has nothing to say about sola scriptura. Nor does it say a word about the nature or number of books in the canon. Catholics certainly agree that the Holy Spirit guided the early Christians to canonize the Scriptures because the Catholic Church teaches that there is an authoritative Church guided by the Holy Spirit. The obvious problem is my Protestant friend did not use sola scriptura as his guiding principle to arrive at his conclusion. How does, for example, Jn. 16:13 tell us that Hebrews was written by an apostolic writer and that it is inspired of God? We would ultimately have to rely on the infallibility of whoever “the Holy Spirit” is guiding to canonize the Bible so that they could not mishear what the Spirit was saying about which books of the Bible are truly inspired.

The fact is, the Bible does not and cannot give us the answer to this question about the canon. It is an historical fact that the Church used Sacred Tradition outside of Scripture for her criterion for the canon. And the early Christians, many of whom disagreed on the issue of the canon, also needed the Church in council to give an authoritative decree on the whole matter.

In order to put this argument of my friend into perspective, can you imagine if a Catholic made a similar claim to demonstrate, say, Mary to be the Mother of God? “We believe the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth and guided the early Christians to declare this truth.” Would the Protestant respond with a hearty, amen? I think not! I can almost hear the response. “Show me in the Bible where Mary is the Mother of God! I don’t want to hear about God guiding the Church!” Wouldn’t the same question remain for the Protestant concerning the canon? “Show me in the Bible where the canon of Scripture is, what the criterion for the canon is, who can and cannot write Scripture, etc.”

Will the Circle be Unbroken?

The Protestant response at this point is often an attempt to use the same argument against the Catholic. “How do you know the Scriptures are inspired? Your reasoning is just as circular because you say the Church is infallible because the inspired Scriptures say so and then say the Scriptures are inspired and infallible because the Church says so!”

The Catholic Church’s position on inspiration is not circular. We do not say “the Church is infallible because the inspired Scriptures say so.” The Church was established historically and functioned as the infallible spokesperson for the Lord decades before the New Testament was written. The Church is infallible because Jesus said so. However, it is true that we know the Scriptures to be inspired because the Church has told us so. That is also an historical fact. However, this is not circular reasoning. When the Catholic approaches Scripture, he or she begins with the Bible as an historical document, not as inspired. As any reputable historian will tell you, the New Testament is the most accurate and verifiable historical document in all of ancient history. To deny the substance of the historical documents recorded therein would be absurd. However, one cannot deduce from this that they are inspired. There are many accurate historical documents that are not inspired. However, the Scriptures do give us accurate historical information whether one holds to their inspiration or not. Further, this testimony of the Bible is backed up by hundreds of works by early Christians and non-Christian writers like Suetonius, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Josephus, and more. It is on this basis that we can say it is an historical fact that Jesus lived, died and was reported to be resurrected from the dead by over 500 eyewitnesses. Many of these eyewitnesses went to their deaths testifying to the veracity of the Christ-event (see Lk. 1:1-4, Jn. 21:18-19, 24-25, Acts 1:1-11, I Cr. 15:1-8).

Now, what do we find when we examine the historical record? Jesus Christ—as a matter of history–established a Church, not a book, to be the foundation of the Christian Faith (see Mt. 16:15-18; 18:15-18. Cf. Eph. 2:20; 3:10,20-21; 4:11-15; I Tm. 3:15; Hb. 13:7,17, etc.). He said of his Church “He who hears you hears me and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me” (Lk. 10:16). The many books that comprise what we call the Bible never tell us crucial truths such as the fact that they are inspired, who can and cannot be the human authors of them, who authored them at all, or, as I said before, what the canon of Scripture is in the first place. And this is just to name a few examples. What is very clear historically is that Jesus established a kingdom with a hierarchy and authority to speak for him (see Lk. 20:29-32, Mt. 10:40, 28:18-20). It was members of this Kingdom—the Church—that would write the Scripture, preserve its many texts and eventually canonize it. The Scriptures cannot write or canonize themselves. To put it simply, reason clearly rejects sola scriptura as a self-refuting principle because one cannot determine what the “scriptura” is using the principle of sola scriptura.

Sola Scriptura is Unbiblical

Let us now consider the most common text used by Protestants to “prove” sola scriptura, II Tm. 3:16, which I quoted above:

All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

The problem with using this text as such is threefold: 1. Strictly speaking, it does not speak of the New Testament at all. 2. It does not claim Scripture to be the sole rule of faith for Christians. 3. The Bible teaches oral Tradition to be on a par with and just as necessary as the written Tradition, or Scripture.

1. What’s Old is Not New

Let us examine the context of the passage by reading the two preceding verses:

But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood (italics added) you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

In context, this passage does not refer to the New Testament at all. None of the New Testament books had been written when St. Timothy was a child! To claim this verse in order to authenticate a book, say, the book of Revelation, when it had most likely not even been written yet, is more than a stretch. That is going far beyond what the text actually claims.

2. The Trouble With Sola

As a Protestant, I was guilty of seeing more than one sola in Scripture that simply did not exist. The Bible clearly teaches justification by faith. And we Catholics believe it. However, we do not believe in justification by faith alone because, among many other reasons, the Bible says, we are “justified by works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24, emphasis added). Analogously, when the Bible says Scripture is inspired and profitable for “the man of God,” to be “equipped for every good work,” we Catholics believe it. However, the text of II Tim. 3:16 never says Scripture alone. There is no sola to be found here either! Even if we granted II Tm. 3:16 was talking about all of Scripture, it never claims Scripture to be the sole rule of faith. A rule of faith, to be sure! But not the sole rule of faith.

James 1:4 illustrates clearly the problem with Protestant exegesis of II Tim. 3:16:

And let steadfastness (patience) have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

If we apply the same principle of exegesis to this text that the Protestant does to II Tm. 3:16 we would have to say that all we need is patience to be perfected. We don’t need faith, hope, charity, the Church, baptism, etc.

Of course, any Christian would immediately say this is absurd. And of course it is. But James’ emphasis on the central importance of patience is even stronger than St. Paul’s emphasis on Scripture. The key is to see that there is not a sola to be found in either text. Sola patientia would be just as much an error as is sola scriptura.

3. Traditions of Men Vs. The Tradition of God

Not only is the Bible silent when it comes to sola scriptura, but Scripture is remarkably plain in teaching oral Tradition to be just as much the word of God as is Scripture. In what most scholars believe was the first book written in the New Testament, St. Paul said:

And we also thank God… that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God… (I Thess. 2:13)

According to St. Paul, the spoken word from the apostles was just as much the word of God as was the later written word. Further, when St. Paul wrote II Thessalonians, he urged the Christians there to receive both the oral and written Traditions as equally authoritative. This would be expected because both are referred to as the word of God.

So, then, brethren stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter (II Thess. 2:15).

A common problem among Protestants at this point is a matter of semantics. “Tradition” is often viewed in a negative light because of Jesus’ condemnation of “the tradition of men” in Mark 7:8.

You leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men.

Notice, this verse makes very clear what kind of tradition it was that Jesus condemned. Jesus condemned the tradition of men, not all tradition. And obviously so; otherwise, you would have Jesus contradicting St. Paul. In fact, you would have Jesus contradicting himself in Matthew 23:2-3:

The scribes and Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice.

Jesus both refers to an oral tradition—the chair of Moses—and commands the apostles to believe and obey it.

Sola Scriptura is Unworkable

When it comes to the tradition of Protestantism—sola scriptura—the silence of the text of Scripture is deafening. When it comes to the true authority of Scripture and Tradition, the Scriptures are clear. And when it comes to the teaching and governing authority of the Church, the biblical text is equally as clear:

If your brother sins against you go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone … But if he does not listen, take one or two others with you … If he refuses to listen … tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. (Mt. 18:15-17)

According to Scripture, the Church—not the Bible alone—is the final court of appeal for the people of God in matters of faith and discipline. But isn’t it also telling that since the Reformation of just ca. 480 years ago—a reformation claiming sola scriptura as its formal principle—there are now over 33,000 denominations that have derived from it?

For 1,500 years, Christianity saw just a few enduring schisms (the Monophysites, Nestorians, the Orthodox, and a very few others). Now in just 480 years we have this? I hardly think that when Jesus prophesied there would be “one shepherd and one fold” in Jn. 10:16, this is what he had in mind. It seems quite clear to me that not only is sola scriptura unreasonable and unbiblical, but it is unworkable. The proof is in the puddin’!

But Didn’t Jesus Himself Believe Sola Scriptura?

When the Devil tempted Jesus three times in Matthew 4, Jesus always responded with Scripture. In fact, with the second of the three temptations the Devil himself began with Scripture. As an aside, I would have to say that was not very smart of the Devil. If you are going to tempt the Word of God, do you really think you are going to outsmart the Word of God with the word of God?

At any rate, in Matt. 4:6, the Devil begins, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down [from the pinnacle of the Temple]; for it is written, ‘He will give his angels charge of you’ and ‘On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone’ (quoting Psalm 91:11-12).”

Jesus then responded with Scripture in Matt. 4:7, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God’ (quoting Deut. 6:16).” Doesn’t this prove Jesus believed in sola scriptura?

Absolutely not!

Just because someone quotes Scripture as an authority, this does not mean he believes in sola scriptura. The Catholic Church quotes Scripture all the time and teaches that Scripture is the inerrant word of God. But what does that prove?

The key here is to understand Jesus not only quoted Scripture as authoritative, but he also referred to Tradition as authoritative in texts like Luke 16:22 (ever read anywhere of “Abraham’s Bosom” in the Old Testament? No, this was Jewish Tradition), Matt. 2:23 (Jesus refers to an Oral Tradition “spoken by the prophets” that is nowhere to be found in the Old Testament), and Matt. 23:1-3, which we saw above, where he speaks of the Tradition of “the chair of Moses”).

He also refers to his own authority when he says over and over, “You have heard it said,” and he often quotes Scripture immediately thereafter, but then he says, “But I say unto you…” He then either introduces new revelation or gives an authoritative interpretation of a biblical text (see Matt. 5:21-48) or, sometimes he simply gives an authoritative interpretation of what Scripture truly means, such as in Matt: 5:10-20.

So did Jesus Christ believe in sola scriptura? By no means! Neither should his Church. And while the Church cannot give new revelation as this ended with the death of the last apostolic man (and we know that because of, you guessed it, Tradition in order to understand texts of Scripture like Jude 3), the Church employs Scripture and Tradition just like her Lord, using her teaching authority she receives from her Lord (Matt. 18:15-18).

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TOPICS: Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; catholic; scripture; solascriptura; timstaples
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To: Kansas58

You’re Saul of Tarsus? You must be really old.....


341 posted on 01/28/2014 8:13:46 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: redleghunter

bump


342 posted on 01/28/2014 8:15:19 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: redleghunter

Jesus Christ tells us the authority we must follow:...Matthew 4:4 NKJV

But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Amen!If someone doesn’t accept that God is perfectly capable and willing to use His word as the compass for our life...and the authority of which He claims that it is... Then frankly people will gravitate to ‘any other source’ of information no matter who claims it or publishes it.


343 posted on 01/28/2014 8:16:35 PM PST by caww
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To: Kansas58

by “Early Church” you are referring to which of the different ones that were being established?


344 posted on 01/28/2014 8:16:54 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Kansas58

The only things in the Bible that really need removed are the word “Saint” before the names of the authors.


345 posted on 01/28/2014 8:18:07 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Kansas58
Even after the first Bible Cannon was agreed to by the Church Fathers, there were far more than a million Christians for every full Bible in existence, for quite some time thereafter.

You know that how?

346 posted on 01/28/2014 8:18:53 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: Kansas58; GarySpFc; daniel1212; metmom; boatbums; CynicalBear

Perhaps you should look at where scholars put the NT books within time and space. Your “examples” of a timeline are woefully off.

Second, scholars debating authorship of Paul authoring 13 epistles has very little dispute. The only epistle there has been historical debate discussed is Hebrews. Their was never any debate among the KJV translators on the 27 book NT canon. There is no debate on the NT canon. Your NABRE and all Protestant Bibles have 27 NT books. I don’t know how you conclude otherwise. Go to biblegateway.com to compare.

You can go to the below link to brush up on the development of the NT canon with regards to authors, dates etc.

http://errantskeptics.org/DatingNT-ChronologicalOrder.htm

And please sir, if you want to debate about cannons (you keep adding the extra “n”) then you are conversing with a Field Artilleryman.


347 posted on 01/28/2014 8:18:53 PM PST by redleghunter
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To: Kansas58

You really believe..”The Bible is a tool, created by the Catholic Church”.

Then you’re understanding of who God is could well be limited. He didn’t need catholics to see his word got to the people any more than he needed catholics to bring Jesus into the world.

Once his word was made known .....and the people knew the truth rather than the fairy tales and such given them...The Reformation came to get the train back on track.....at least for those who wanted to know the truth. Those who didn’t fell behind and incorporated and continued all the pagan rituals and actions which had come into the church.

When man won’t clean his house...God will raise up those who will.


348 posted on 01/28/2014 8:23:44 PM PST by caww
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To: Kansas58

Ok that was incoherent. From the Resurrection to almost the end of the 1st Century believers had both written Words and “bipedal” Gospel preachers and teachers. They wrote these things down as evidenced by what we see in circulation after the passing of the apostles.

Based on your other assertions, where do we find the Gospel message the early Christians responded to?


349 posted on 01/28/2014 8:26:45 PM PST by redleghunter
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To: Kansas58

I keep hearing from Catholics that the early Christians were poor, stupid and illiterate. How so? Many spoke multiple languages, to include reading and writing. Those Bereans we are told searched the scriptures (Acts 17). It was not until later when sola ecclesia asserted itself where we see scripture reading discouraged and the laity become ignorant.


350 posted on 01/28/2014 8:33:58 PM PST by redleghunter
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To: Kansas58; metmom
...you do notice, do you not, that various quotations from Jesus, which happened at the same time, are reported slightly differently depending on the Book of the Bible you read?...And has any original Scribe, or Translator, or Printer EVER made a mistake in any Bible? YES! ....My position is that the Bible is a TOOL originally created by the Catholic Church.

Why would the Catholic Church create a tool which, as you're claiming, contains known mistakes? Why not correct the mistakes, if you know what they are? Did the "Gates of Hell" manage to prevail against His written word?

Jesus never commanded a Bible. Not once.

And so the Catholic Church decided, in their infinite wisdom and creativity, to make up one for themselves (one filled with mistakes) that falsely claims otherwise - is that what you're asking us to believe?

And he who was seated on the throne said...“Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
-- Revelation 21:5b

351 posted on 01/28/2014 8:35:44 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Kansas58; metmom
>> My position is that the Bible is a TOOL originally created by the Catholic Church.<<

The original Hebrew and Greek documents were NOT written by Catholics. The Jews had long established which Old Testament books were scripture and Peter even identified Paul’s writings as scripture.

2 Peter 3:15b. As also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given him, [16] as in all his letters, speaking concerning these matters, in which some things are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also THE OTHER SCRIPTURES. [17] You then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being let away with the delusion of the lawless.

Those writers were all Jewish not Catholic.

352 posted on 01/28/2014 8:36:25 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: redleghunter; Kansas58
You can keep asserting the term “Bible” where I clearly stated Holy Scriptures.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
What is the scripture that preached to Abraham before the Bible was written?
353 posted on 01/28/2014 8:43:28 PM PST by Seven_0 (You cannot fool all of the people, ever!)
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To: Kansas58
Tradition informs our understanding of Scripture. And Scripture is NOTHIHG other than the Oral Tradition, reduced to writing, some 200 to 300 years AFTER the death of the last Apostle.

If you actually read a bible, you'd know that is not true at all...It is completely false...

Joh_21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

James doing the writing...

Act 18:27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

brethren writing...

Rom 16:22 I Tertius, who wrote this epistle, salute you in the Lord.

1Co 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

Corinthians writing...

2Pe_3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

1Jn_2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

Jud_1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

2Co_1:13 For we write none other things unto you, than what ye read or acknowledge; and I trust ye shall acknowledge even to the end;

Eph_3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Col_4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.

There was so much writing going on they must have had paper mills and pencil venders in most every town...PolyCarp had copies of the scriptures he was reading from every where he went...

When are you guys going to start teaching what the bible teaches???

354 posted on 01/28/2014 9:11:56 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Kansas58
Jesus never commanded a Bible. Not once.

Jesus commanded Moses and others to write to write...Jesus commanded John to write...

My position is that the Bible is a TOOL originally created by the Catholic Church.

There were no Catholics in the Old Testament...There weren't any Catholics when the New Testament was authored...

355 posted on 01/28/2014 9:16:19 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Kansas58
How often does one NT Book reference another NT Book?

Constantly...

356 posted on 01/28/2014 9:20:00 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Kansas58; metmom; redleghunter; All

“And besides, you do notice, do you not, that various quotations from Jesus, which happened at the same time, are reported slightly differently depending on the Book of the Bible you read?”


Are you claiming that the scripture has errors? That is the only conclusion we can receive from such an argument, as you are not critiquing translations, but the authenticity of the Apostolic testimony, or, at least, the scripture in its original language. Either way, it is an attack on the holy scripture, which makes you an infidel.

“Jesus never commanded a Bible. Not once.”


Then why did Christ give the Apostles the power and authority to write scripture? They considered their own writings, and even the writings of their close associates, to be equal in infallibility with the books of Moses. It’s not like someone decided that what they wrote was scripture later. They believed that they were writing the inspired word of God:

2Pe_3:16 As also in all his [Paul’s] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Peter here calls the epistles of Paul to all be scripture.

1Ti_5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

In this case, Paul quotes the Gospel of Luke right alongside Moses. This is quoted also in Matthew, but the Greek follows the pattern of Luke. Compare:

Luk 10:7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.

So when Paul declared that “all scripture is given by inspiration of God,” he literally believed that the sentence he was writing was itself scripture, the very moment he wrote it.

2Ti 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

“And has any original Scribe, or Translator, or Printer EVER made a mistake in any Bible?”


If it’s good enough for this guy, it’s good enough for me!

Cyril of Jerusalem on Sola Scriptura:

“Have thou ever in your mind this seal, which for the present has been lightly touched in my discourse, by way of summary, but shall be stated, should the Lord permit, to the best of my power with the proof from the Scriptures. For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell you these things, give not absolute credence, unless thou receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning , but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures.” (Cyril of Jerusalem, Cat. Lecture 4, Ch. 17)


357 posted on 01/28/2014 9:21:07 PM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Seven_0

Read the scripture quote you posted. The answer is there.


358 posted on 01/28/2014 9:30:16 PM PST by redleghunter
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To: editor-surveyor

On the relation of the Scripture to the Church, St. Thomas wrote [this one I got from Joe Gallegos, and it appears later in Not By Scripture Alone] —

ST II-II, Question 5, Article 3

The formal object of faith is Primary Truth as manifested in Holy Scripture and in the teaching of the Church which proceeds from the Primary Truth. Hence, he who does not embrace the teaching of the Church as a divine and infallible law does not possess the habit of faith.

Now of course you might disagree with these assertions but at least we have what this great Doctor of the Church believed. St. Thomas is well-respected among certain Reformed theologians as R.C. Sproul and John Gerstner — See Thomas Aquinas : An Evangelical Appraisal by Norm Geisler (Baker Books, 1991). I also find it curious how Geisler tries to make it appear Aquinas believed in sola scriptura in his Roman Catholics and Evangelicals (Baker, 1995).


359 posted on 01/28/2014 9:46:09 PM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: Kansas58; redleghunter
My point is that it is entirely possible to get to Heaven without knowledge of the full Bible, or even without ever having read or seen a Bible.

Certainly that is true, and in fact it is entirely possible to get to Heaven without knowledge that there is even a church, unless the Ethiopian eunuch was not saved till he joined one.

But the point it that the gospel by which one is saved was established upon Scriptural substantiation in word and in power, that being what the Lord Jesus est. His Truth claims on, as did the apostles, (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)

For as written, it became the transcendent standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims, as is is abundantly evidence d. And thus it was by Scriptures that they were supremely tested by literate noble seekers, as Acts 17:11 testifies

The Bible is a tool, created by the Catholic Church, to assist in the work of spreading the Good News, and to make Disciples of All Nations.

That also is quite amazing. Created the Bible. So the Catholic church is the same church as the NT church? And so the church began a project to write 73 books and put them in one book, or you mean it decided to create an assuredly authoritative compilation of Scriptures? Even if it took until after Luther died for Rome to provide her first indisputable complete canon, as dispute continued down thru the centuries right into Trent. . And yet even in the Catholic Church canons of Scripture are not identical.

And how could anyone have assurance of Truth and what Scripture was before there was a church in Rome?

Now its time to sleep.

360 posted on 01/28/2014 10:01:23 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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