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To: redleghunter

-— I am sure that is firmly rooted in the catechism, but not the Holy Scriptures. Please point out where in the doctrines of the NT (for example Romans) it is asserted the church is a vehicle for giving grace to believers. -—

Your premise is invalid, since it is self-contradictory. The idea that the only valid Christian doctrines must be contained in Scripture, isn’t found in Scripture. It is a novelty invented by Luther.

Regardless, “the church of the living God” is “the pillar and foundation of truth.” Jesus said, “if he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector.” Jesus also said to his Apostles, “he who hears you, hears me.” And we are to hold fast to the Apostolic traditions “handed down by word of mouth or by letter.”

So Apostolic Tradition and Church Teaching are sources of Christian Authority, in addition to Scripture.

http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/sacraments_in_scripture.htm

And the efficaciousness of the Sacraments in imparting grace is found in Apostolic Tradition and confirmed by Christ’s Church.


403 posted on 01/24/2014 9:32:06 PM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; redleghunter
And the efficaciousness of the Sacraments in imparting grace is found in Apostolic Tradition and confirmed by Christ’s Church.

But not supported anywhere in Scripture.

FWIW, the word *sacrament* is not found anywhere in Scripture. If it was the means by which grace is imparted, don't you think SOMEONE, like the Holy Spirit, would have told us so?

404 posted on 01/24/2014 9:37:39 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

“Your premise is invalid, since it is self-contradictory. The idea that the only valid Christian doctrines must be contained in Scripture, isn’t found in Scripture. It is a novelty invented by Luther.”

Who mentioned Luther. If you cannot substantiate your Christian doctrine on Holy Scriptures then your position is untenable and as reliable as that of the Pharisees’ mixture of written Law and man-made oral laws, which Jesus rebuked. As we see Paul instruct Timothy:

2 Timothy 3:14-17 KJV

But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

You use EWTN, I quote Paul. Luther is not in the equation at all. So attribute the invalid premise to Paul if you dare.


435 posted on 01/25/2014 12:16:35 AM PST by redleghunter
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