Austria: More Leaving Church Under Pope Francis Than Under Benedict XVI

The Eponymous Flower ^ | 1/16/14 | Giuseppe Nardi

[BlatherNaut]

I suspect this is due to Austria's "registered adherent / church tax" thing. Interesting that each year is worse than the last

Could well be. Church tax might be one of the last discretionary spending line items in the family budget for many of these people. As taxes rise and economies worsen, something has got to give.

I remember when I was an exchange student in Germany, and was puzzled because the family I lived with, while proclaiming themselves Catholic, would drop me at the Church door and skitter furtively away like they were afraid of being seen. In retrospect, I think they probably hadn't paid the church tax. They were a hard-working family of modest means and probably couldn't afford it.

When the Church crawls into bed with Caesar, the result is never good.

[metmom]

That’s true......

[ansel12]

It is a common theme, why are you always asking for names, do you really want every thread dragged into the next and people being pinged to argue?

You should know very well of all the posts describing the complete opposite of what the facts are, as posters describe their own church as bursting with new white Catholics, or new Catholics, or evangelicals converting to Catholicism, full of all conservative republicans, etc, etc., it is something of a staple.

[Alex Murphy]

When the Church crawls into bed with Caesar, the result is never good.

IMO Spain proves that point:
Tax the Church? In Spain, it Saves the Govt Billions
Bishop Says King Will Not be Sanctioned for Signing Abortion Law
Spanish Bishops say the Church has no intention of self-funding
Spanish Govt. and Roman Catholic Church reach financing agreement

[BlatherNaut]

I notice Ralph Martin is also a parishioner, which is probably a big draw.

http://ctkcc.libsyn.com/webpage/the-attack-on-religious-liberty-and-the-catholic-church-dr-ralph-martin

[BlatherNaut]

I agree.

[Mrs. Don-o]

The statement we are discussing--- if I am following the replies correctly--- is this one:

"FReepers have told me the whole church is now growing like crazy."

Not one FReeper has said this.

Statements about converts coming in, growth in this or that country, this or that Diocese, this or that parish, may all be true, without being compounded into an overall dubious claim that "the whole church is now growing like crazy."

Nobody said that, ansel12.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Yes, one of many. I am admirer of Ralph Martin.

[ansel12]

Actually we get many posts on the growth of the denomination as a whole, and it’s growth in the US, for instance you must have seen the chart that the poster thought showed growth in the US, (although it showed the opposite), it was on many threads.

These posts are common, almost as common as your constantly never seeing anything and demanding that we post individual names of posters.

[Alex Murphy]

Actually we get many posts on the growth of the denomination as a whole, and it’s growth in the US, for instance you must have seen the chart that the poster thought showed growth in the US, (although it showed the opposite), it was on many threads.

These posts are common, almost as common as your constantly never seeing anything and demanding that we post individual names of posters.

There must be a second Religion Forum around here that's exclusive to Catholics. I don't know what everybody else is looking at, but I'm seeing the same things that you are.

[Gamecock]

I notice Ralph Martin is also a parishioner, which is probably a big draw.

What does that mean? Some newfangled type of idolatry?

[Mrs. Don-o]

I don't know why you keep ignoring what I actually said, which was that no FReeper has claimed that "the whole [Catholic] church is now growing like crazy."

It is also strange that you claim that this is quite common, happens all the time, constantly, all over the threads, and yet there is not one person you can name, who said it.

I am not familiar with the chart you referenced. If you can find it and send it to me, I would be glad to comment, or even, frankly, criticize it if it is in error.

Thank you.

[Mrs. Don-o]

:o) Yeah, the Ralph Martin Cult.

(Rolling eyes.)

[BlatherNaut]

No, but he is a well-known intellectual, apologist, and author whose mission is leading others to Christ.

http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=121902

[ansel12]

I didn’t ignore you, I refuted you, as far as the chart, you were all over the thread with your posts, too bad you weren’t reading the thread and all the others like it.

If you read the threads you post on, it might prevent this constant shock and the pulling out of the fainting couch that you do as your start into arguments.

[ansel12]

There must be a second Religion Forum around here that's exclusive to Catholics. I don't know what everybody else is looking at, but I'm seeing the same things that you are.

Yep, it is amazingly like the old Mormon threads.

[BlatherNaut]

If you read the threads you post on, it might prevent this constant shock and the pulling out of the fainting couch that you do as your start into arguments.

What's the point of arguing over the numbers? They are what they are. Any honest person, Catholic or otherwise, is not going to pretend that a spiritual apostasy has not occurred throughout the world, particularly in the past few decades (and it is clearly not limited to former members of the Catholic Church).

"Global atheism on the rise"

http://www.ecumenicalnews.com/article/global-atheism-on-the-rise-22235

[ansel12]

Direct your arguments at post 6, not me.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

MDO,
You do understand that I was posting “tongue-in-cheek”...

[BlatherNaut]

OK, I see that that post asks for names. I would also be curious as to where such claims have been posted. Honestly haven’t noticed that type of hyperbole here, but then again, I don’t have time to read everything on this site, so maybe I missed something.