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Some Biblical Truths
Answering Protestants ^ | 14 January 2014 | Matthew Olson

Posted on 01/14/2014 12:05:53 PM PST by matthewrobertolson

The Old Testament & the New Testament

The Old Testament is the shadow of the New (Hebrews 10:1), but still useful (Romans 15:4, 1 Corinthians 10:11). To disregard it is to blaspheme. [link]

Jesus Christ not only fulfilled the OT (Galatians 3:13-14, Hebrews 8:6, 9:10), but also John the Baptist's ministry (John 1:6-8). [link]

Faith, Works, and Salvation

"But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves." - James 1:22 [link]

Those who believe that Abraham was saved by "faith alone" in Genesis 15:6 should read about his prior works in Genesis 12-14. [link]

God did not call us to be impure, but to be holy (1 Thessalonians 4:7), and He will judge us accordingly (1 Peter 1:17). [link]

Without sanctification, no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). We must be made perfect (v. 23, Revelation 21:27). Purgatory is a blessing. [link]

It is dangerous to emphasize "safety and joy" or "eternal security" in the context of salvation. (1 Corinthians 4:4-5, Philippians 2:12) [link]

On John 15:12-17: Jesus Christ came for everyone, but salvation is for His "friends," and we can be one of them only if we follow His commands. [link]

The Mass & the Eucharist

Jesus Christ knew that many would argue over the Eucharist (see John 6:60-66) because of the OT (Genesis 9:3-4, Deuteronomy 12:15-16). But it's real! [link]

John 6:53 (Communion) is reminiscent of Exodus 12 (Passover). If we do not partake of the Lamb, then we are at risk. [link]

Malachi 1:11 points out the importance of having incense and the Eucharist ("a grain offering"). These are two things that set Catholics apart from Protestants, and they both seem to be mandated by Scripture. [link]

The Eucharist, a gift from God (Revelation 16:6), shows that we are with the Church. "Foreigners" and the "unworthy" are not (Exodus 12:43, 1 Corinthians 11:27). [link]

Infant Baptism

The idea that an infant cannot have faith is mistaken. John the Baptist recognized Jesus Christ from within the womb (Luke 1:39-44)! [link]

The Leadership of St. Peter

When it comes to Petrine primacy, Isaiah 22:20-22 foreshadows Matthew 16:18-19. [link]

On turning the other cheek

In 1 Maccabees 2:15-41, some refuse to defend themselves on the Sabbath and are slaughtered. Devout, but also naive. Sometimes, you must fight. [link]


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; General Discusssion; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; christian; gospel; jesus
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To: Tennessee Nana

“IT IS FINISHED” refers to His Life and Sacrifice, as well as the Mosaic Covenant. It does not defend the idea of “eternal security”.


41 posted on 01/15/2014 5:14:29 AM PST by matthewrobertolson
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To: Zuriel; Tennessee Nana
He had to move his wife, workers, livestock across almost 400 miles, crossing rivers and streams, setting up tents and taking down tents over and over for many days.

Zuriel, you (inadvertently, or intentionally?) just made my point. His faith required action. He was saved "apart from works of the [Mosaic] Law" (Romans 3:28), but not apart from works entirely, because of course, much of the Mosaic-time Law was intentionally "over-the-top" in order to get at the Jews' "hardness of their heart" (to take a phrase from Ephesians 4:18). God didn't want their kind of sacrifices, but true faith and "a broken and contrite heart" (Psalm 51:16-17).

This is why I asked people to read Genesis 12 - 14.
42 posted on 01/15/2014 5:24:48 AM PST by matthewrobertolson
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To: mitch5501
Actually in the real world,with it's attendant 'god',with the constant internal struggle to die daily,with the confronting facts of self evaluation,with a sin ravaged,wicked and deceitfull heart desperate to maintain 'lordship' over our minds, all the while striving upwards against our own selves,it's not "dangerous" it's CRITICAL!

Preach it, brother!!!

43 posted on 01/15/2014 6:35:35 AM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: matthewrobertolson; CynicalBear; redleghunter; daniel1212; Greetings_Puny_Humans; Gamecock; ...
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father."

Faith and works go hand-in-hand. Both are necessary. To believe means to obey. This is proved right after John 3:16, in v. 20. True belief is tied to action, and sin and disobedience are tied to a lack of belief.

"For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed."

And in v. 36...

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

If one really believes, he will be good. Therefore, if one is not good, he must not really believe.

You were doing really well until this last statement. In general, works are an indication of saving faith as opposed to intellectual assent.

HOWEVER, God looks on the heart, not the outward appearances. The problem is that people can be saved and not be what the world calls *good* because it's such a vague description and often I find that a person's definition of *good* is actually based not on Scripture but on their own personal opinion and preferences. IOW, others often judge someone else's goodness based on what the person judging THINKS the other should be doing.

The other problem is, people can be what others judge as good without any faith at all.

And, we all slip. The flesh is strong and we ALL lose the battle with it at times. The war is won, but until we reach heaven, it's with us and a constant battle.

44 posted on 01/15/2014 6:47:02 AM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: matthewrobertolson; CynicalBear; redleghunter; daniel1212; Greetings_Puny_Humans; Gamecock; ...
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father."

Faith and works go hand-in-hand. Both are necessary. To believe means to obey. This is proved right after John 3:16, in v. 20. True belief is tied to action, and sin and disobedience are tied to a lack of belief.

"For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed."

And in v. 36...

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

If one really believes, he will be good. Therefore, if one is not good, he must not really believe.

Works are just something God has for us to do. The evidence of a believing heart is a changed heart working out in a changed life.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

The danger of depending on works as evidence for salvation is that it can be deceptive. It can lead someone to think that because they intellectually acknowledge God and add their own works, they are saved, when there has never been any transforming work of the Holy Spirit in their lives and they aren't saved at all.

45 posted on 01/15/2014 6:59:12 AM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: count-your-change; redleghunter
>>What translation of the Scriptures calls Jesus “LORD”?<<

Here it is straight from the Greek.

“that if you confess the saying with the mouth of you the Lord is Jesus and believe in the heart of you that God him raised from among the dead you will be saved” [http://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/10-9.htm]

46 posted on 01/15/2014 7:00:51 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Zuriel; Tennessee Nana
Even the ‘only believe’ crowd, that defies moving a muscle to be saved, go somewhere to hear a preacher, even if it only requires crossing the street.

No, you don't need to move a muscle to believe. It's a heart decision, an act of will.

That decision, which manifests in works, is what saves. The salvation is complete before any of the works are evident.

It's AFTER the new birth that the works manifest.

47 posted on 01/15/2014 7:03:53 AM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: Zuriel; Tennessee Nana
Consider the effort it took for Abraham to have faith. He had to move his wife, workers, livestock across almost 400 miles, crossing rivers and streams, setting up tents and taking down tents over and over for many days. No trucks, buses, train, planes (well...ok...there would have been no TSA. So that part would have been easier).

It took no effort for Abraham to have faith. Because Abraham had faith, he made the effort.

48 posted on 01/15/2014 7:05:21 AM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: CynicalBear

Looks like English to me, but the point was the use of caps as was commented upon. Thanks.


49 posted on 01/15/2014 7:06:42 AM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: matthewrobertolson; Tennessee Nana
>>“IT IS FINISHED” refers to His Life and Sacrifice, as well as the Mosaic Covenant. It does not defend the idea of “eternal security”.<<

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." (John 5:24)

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

50 posted on 01/15/2014 7:13:18 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: redleghunter
If we confess Jesus Christ as LORD...LORD means something and is not just a title for prayer. Lord (kyrios) means: he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord. We belong to him. He is the master and we are the slave (doulos). Most use the softer "bond-servant" or "servant" but the Greek it is slave. A slave obeys the commands of his master. We obey the commands of our Master Jesus Christ.

Good comment. :)
51 posted on 01/15/2014 9:24:11 AM PST by matthewrobertolson
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To: matthewrobertolson
Genesis 12 - 14.

In summary. Abraham was called; he believed; he moved (action). If Abraham did not move, it would mean he did not believe.

52 posted on 01/15/2014 11:40:50 AM PST by redleghunter
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To: matthewrobertolson; Tennessee Nana
This supports the doctrine of eternal security.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 10:25-30 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”

Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Colossians 1:13-14 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Colossians 3:3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:4-8 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

53 posted on 01/15/2014 11:47:33 AM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom

“No, you don’t need to move a muscle to believe. It’s a heart decision, an act of will.”

... well, I guess the thief on the cross might have turned his head toward Jesus.


54 posted on 01/15/2014 2:55:39 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Truth is hate to those who hate the Truth)
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To: redleghunter
In summary. Abraham was called; he believed; he moved (action). If Abraham did not move, it would mean he did not believe.

Yes! :)

Abraham also built three altars in honor of God (one in Genesis 12:7, one in Genesis 12:8, and one in Genesis 13:18).

And Abraham kept his word to God (Genesis 14:22-24).

It was only after all of this that Abraham was finally recognized as "righteous" before God (Genesis 15:6).
55 posted on 01/15/2014 3:05:43 PM PST by matthewrobertolson
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To: matthewrobertolson; redleghunter
It was only after all of this that Abraham was finally recognized as "righteous" before God

The passage (Gen 15:6) doesn't say that at all.

56 posted on 01/15/2014 3:36:07 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: matthewrobertolson

Next you will infer Abraham had a liturgy:) Just kidding, but that altar comment I know you wanted to take further:)


57 posted on 01/15/2014 4:07:11 PM PST by redleghunter
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To: CynicalBear; mlizzy; Arthur McGowan; mc5cents; RichInOC; Prince of Space; JoeFromSidney; ...
In the Religion forum, on a thread titled Some Biblical Truths, CynicalBear wrote:
Catholics do stumble at that faith thing don’t they.
Not really. Unlike those of little faith, we have no trouble understanding and celebrating Lent, Easter and Christmas. We also get that whole "worship on Sunday" thing that the fringe cults have trouble with. Ditto the Real Presence, and of course the Sacrament of Confession, the Apostolic Succession and well the total Deposit of Faith that the incomplete schismatic, heretical sects lack. But then you knew that, right?
58 posted on 01/15/2014 4:16:31 PM PST by narses (... unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.)
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To: Faith Presses On

bttt


59 posted on 01/15/2014 4:23:19 PM PST by Faith Presses On
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To: narses

Still trying to cross thread ey?


60 posted on 01/15/2014 5:00:17 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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