Posted on 01/12/2014 7:49:32 PM PST by restornu
He's got something... :-)
Post one isn’t your post?
Do not be deceived! Here are three verses that declare and identify the triune nature of God. First, God refers to himself as plural. Second, Jesus refers to himself and his father as plural. Third, Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit as another advocate in addition to himself.
Genesis 1:26 NIV
Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.
John 14:23 NIV
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.”
John 14:16-17 NIV
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
***
Well duh,
The Bible has more reference to becoming a child of God than it has for the word Trinity which does not exist... At least joint heirs is nothing to moan about...
Romans 8
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Wow if we are good we too will get Eternal bodies of Flesh and Bone and also be glorifies!
Woo Hoo!
Shout for Joy!:)
Let's look at actual bible verses that show the Godhead in heaven:
Dan 7:13 "I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him.
Dan 7:14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.
Two, ancient of days, son of man. No such person called holy spirit there in heaven.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
God and the Word. Two. No person called the holy spirit in the Godhead with them. The two ARE God.
Rev_22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev_22:3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.
Who have thrones? Two. God and the Lamb. There is no throne, ever, for a person called the holy spirit.
Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
Rev_7:10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"
Who does this vast multitude of saved people credit for their salvation? God and the lamb. Two. They do not credit a person called the holy spirit up there. Why do you suppose that is?
How about Jesus...what did he think?
Joh_10:30 I and My Father are one."
Oops! What happened here? Jesus Christ did not include a person called the holy spirit as being "one" of God. He only included the two of them.
Heb_8:1 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,
Wait....where is the person called the holy spirit up there with God and his high priest. Again, only two of them.
Verse after verse after verse shows that there are two that make up the Godhead.
I am amazed that people just don't believe what they read and instead will embrace an idea that didn't become part of the official church teaching until nearly 400 years after Jesus died.
How do you explain this?
Are you going to clear up the confusion about whether post one is yours?
“Wow if we are good we too will get Eternal bodies of Flesh and Bone and also be glorifies!”
IOW, another ‘God,’ since Mormon teaching claims that God has a glorified body of flesh and bone; but you can only make this claim while ignoring Isaiah, and many other scriptures besides.
As for “children of God,” and “heirs,” we are adopted children, not “literal” children, as the LDS or Armstrong cults believe, since they want us to believe that God is literally reproducing more gods. Nor are we inheriting the “fulness” or “nature” of God, as the Armstrong cults teach, but the kingdom that was promised to us as part of the Body of Christ, who is True Israel, and the true heir to all the Abrahamic promises.
Eph_1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Gal_3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
i am not a mormon and i agree that the “trinity” doctrine is garbage
I agree, I too am pro bible. We need to remember that the bible does not try to prove that 1) God exists, 2) that Jesus is his son, 3) that the Holy Spirit exists. It assumes that the reader already knows this.
Hints of the trinity are seen through-out the scripture from Gen 1:1, to Matt. 28:19,(and in other books of the NT as well) and the Father, Son, and Spirit are present all together in one place at one time in Matt 3:16-17, Mk 1:10-11, Lk. 3:21-22, with witnesses present as well.
“How do you explain this?”
This argument, which you’ve copied and pasted before, is just as vapid as the OP. Since all it does is depend on ignoring all the scriptures that do not agree with them, and then ask, almost as if they are serious, “How do you explain this?” It is the Armstrong cults and other groups which deny 2,000 years of Christianity that should be explaining things. Not us.
Earlier in the scripture Jesus talks about the 1st comforter the Holy ghost which is from the Father that dwells in him, John 14:9-18 and later in the scriptures John 14:23-31 he talks about the 2nd comforter which the Father will send after Jesus leaves.
1- John 14:9-18
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
15 ¶If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. ***
2- John 14:23-31
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.
There is so much understanding of the Godhead to be gleam from these scriptures for those who humbly desire truth.
Deuteronomy 6:5
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
From Matthew Henry’s Commentary:
The three-fold mention of the Divine names, and the plural number of the [Hebrew] word translated God [Elohim], seem plainly to intimate a Trinity of persons, even in this express declaration of the unity of the Godhead.
Also Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness.”
And Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us.”
No need to get nasty gph..if you can't read or explain scripture just say so. No need to hide behind insults...
How do I explain it?
There is nothing to explain. The Holy Spirit does not reside in heaven. Why would he? Jesus said in John 14:16-17 that the Holy Spirit lives with us and in us forever.
“28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”
Christ is only “lesser” to the Father in His human nature, and in His office as mediator between God and man as the ‘second Adam’ who fulfilled the law. In His divinity, He is absolutely almighty:
Rev_1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
If Christ is “almighty,” you cannot imagine that there is someone else MORE “almighty” than He, nor can you pretend that there can be such a thing as TWO Almighties, which is a contradiction.
Your polytheism cannot survive the scripture, no matter how much you run from verses like this.
That good 'ol cultic book "Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words disagrees with your interpretation of this greek word. Vine's says about "adoption":
", "adoption of children" is a mistranslation and misleading. God does not "adopt" believers as children; they are begotten as such by His Holy Spirit through faith. "Adoption" is a term involving the dignity of the relationship of believers as sons; it is not a putting into the family by spiritual birth, but a putting into the position of sons. In Romans 8:23 the "adoption" of the believer is set forth as still future, as it there includes the redemption of the body, when the living will be changed and those who have fallen asleep will be raised. In Romans 9:4 "adoption" is spoken of as belonging to Israel, in accordance with the statement in Exodus 4:12 , "Israel is My Son." Cp. Hosea 11:1 . Israel was brought into a special relation with God, a collective relationship, not enjoyed by other nations, Deuteronomy 14:1 ; Jeremiah 31:9 , etc.
greek expert and neither are you. So I'll listen to the greek expert and not you if you don't mind...
Part of the point is that holy spirit is given no honor, no glory, no credit, by anyone. It's not included in the Godhead. If anyone had thought it was separate person in the Godhead it would seem that they didn't convey the respected honor or respect. And of course they didn't because the doctrine that the holy spirit was a separate person was developed long long after Christ died.
Are you dismissing the promise in Romans 8?
After the only begotten Son came to earth Jesus has made it possible for our ransom to be paid
In the Old Testament, the oldest son of Asenath and Joseph who was sold into Egypt (Gen. 41:50–51). He and his brother Ephraim were grandsons of Jacob (Israel) but were adopted and blessed by him as if they were his own sons (Gen. 48:1–20). http://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/gen/48.1-20?lang=eng#0
Adoption
See also Abraham—The seed of Abraham; Children of Christ; Israel; Sons and Daughters of God
In the LDS Standard scriptures which testify of each other the Bible and LDS scriptures
The scriptures speak of two types of adoption.
(1) A person who is of non-Israelite lineage becomes a member of the family of Abraham and the house of Israel by having faith in Jesus Christ, repenting, being baptized by immersion, and receiving the Holy Ghost (2 Ne. 31:17–18; D&C 84:73–74; Abr. 2:6, 11).
(2) All who have received the saving ordinances of the gospel become sons and daughters of Jesus Christ by continued obedience to his commandments (Rom. 8:15–17; Gal. 3:24–29; 4:5–7; Mosiah 5:7–8).
Gal 3
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
***
Gal 4
The Saints are children of God by adoption—Paul calls the Galatians back to Christ—He compares the two covenants.
1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
2 Ne 31 17-
Nephi tells why Christ was baptized—Men must follow Christ, be baptized, receive the Holy Ghost, and endure to the end to be saved—Repentance and baptism are the gate to the strait and narrow path—Eternal life comes to those who keep the commandments after baptism. About 559–545 B.C.
The LDS understanding of the Remission of sins.
11 And the Father said: Repent ye, repent ye, and be baptized in the name of my Beloved Son.
12 And also, the voice of the Son came unto me, saying: He that is baptized in my name, to him will the Father give the Holy Ghost, like unto me; wherefore, follow me, and do the things which ye have seen me do.
13 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.
14 But, behold, my beloved brethren, thus came the voice of the Son unto me, saying: After ye have repented of your sins, and witnessed unto the Father that ye are willing to keep my commandments, by the baptism of water, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and can speak with a new tongue, yea, even with the tongue of angels, and after this should deny me, it would have been better for you that ye had not known me.
15 And I heard a voice from the Father, saying: Yea, the words of my Beloved are true and faithful. He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.
16 And now, my beloved brethren, I know by this that unless a man shall endure to the end, in following the example of the Son of the living God, he cannot be saved.
17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.
18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.
19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.
20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.
21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/31?lang=eng
In all due respect.
I whole heartedly believe in the near future more Bible scriptures will come forth I know the LDS only have a 1/3 of the Book of Mormon that more is to be given in the Lord time.
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