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To: daniel1212
"one reason is that hiereus is never used for NT pastors, nor does it mean presbuteros or episkopeō , despite entomology based on imposed functional equivalence (and all believers offer sacrifice and make up the general priesthood" (1Pt. 2:5,9)). " Of course Catholics can ask God for forgiveness without the help of a priest. We do it all the time. I've done it 3 times this morning, already. It is clearly shown throughout Scripture and Early Church History that there was an hierarchical priesthood set up. “Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained. .....John 20:21-23 Jesus requested this, specifically. In the fullness of Jesus Christ's Gospel, this is why it is done. Why is it that other Christians, do not do it?
44 posted on 01/12/2014 8:44:57 AM PST by rbmillerjr (Ted Cruz...2016-24 ...A New Conservative Era)
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To: rbmillerjr
It is clearly shown throughout Scripture and Early Church History that there was an hierarchical priesthood set up.

It does not, as the only pastoral hierarchy was that of the apostles and bishops/elders, that being one office, (Titus 1:5-7) as pastors/shepherds - not the hierarchical system of Rome with its love of various titles and clothing, which befits what the Lord reproved. (Mt. 23:5-9)

Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained. .....John 20:21-23

Which does not speak of the RC priesthood, which is not seen, and instead what we see in application is what i described.

But if you want to contend it is the RC priesthood, then since objective examination of Scripture is not your basis for determining doctrinal Truth and assurance, you might state what your basis is.

Then in condescension to me, show in Scripture,

1. Where the Holy Spirit referred to NT pastors as hiereus.

2. That this was due to a unique sacrificial function, as they are shown presiding over the Lord's table, turning bread and wine into human flesh and blood, and giving it to others in order that they may have life in them and eternal life (as other RCs keep quoting me Jn. 6:53,54)

3. And beyond that, that a (conditionally) infallible head and magisterium is necessary to disputably determine what and who is of God, writings and men, so that what it rejects must be rejected.

Why is it that other Christians, do not do it?

This begs the question of what this means, and whether Rome is doing it. For not only were there more than the apostles present in Jn. 20:19ff (cf. Lk. 24:13ff), but the application of that is not seen as believers regularly coming to the priests to hear confession, but the bonding and loosing is as after the manner i described.

Which we see in discipline, and praying for healing, deliverance, etc.,, in special cases. And while pastors in evang. type churches do engage in discipline, and pray for the sick as Ja 5 teaches etc. (and which is not sppsd to be a precursor of death), other believers are to do so also.

But none of us sees the manner of power in which the apostles did so, though i do not exclude such manner of working.

76 posted on 01/12/2014 10:32:10 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: rbmillerjr
If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained. .....John 20:21-23 Jesus requested this, specifically. In the fullness of Jesus Christ's Gospel, this is why it is done. Why is it that other Christians, do not do it?

And yet, no one ever went to Peter or any other man to confess any sin for an example to us...The apostles never ask for it or recommended it...

And yet, Peter and the other apostles tell others they must go to God to confess, not to them or some other man...

It ought to be very clear that your religion is misunderstanding the verse you cite for your claim of proof...

95 posted on 01/12/2014 11:15:19 AM PST by Iscool
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