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To: stonehouse01

First, I appreciate the respectful way you wrote that. I will give a respectful answer in return...

John 3:5 - water is physical birth through amniotic fluid, not baptism. Verse 6 makes it clear Christ is contrasting the first (water) with physical birth and the second (born of the spirit) spiritual birth. The first doesn’t save, nor does Christ say so. He says if you don’t experience both, you won’t experience the kingdom of God.

John 3:22 - if you read further, you will see the context is baptism for repentance - John the Baptist’s baptism, since he was not yet thrown into jail. Never does it say those baptized in this way went to heaven.

I Peter 3:21 - in this instance you are imputing a meaning without context, based on a word. Here is more of the passage for context.

“19 After being made alive,[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[e] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.”

Baptism saves Christians now as the water that floated Noah’s ark saved him and drowned his unbelieving antagonists. The water itself did not save Noah, it was a judgement on the world. Noah obeyed God by putting his faith in His provision before the rain began and he was saved.

The water itself does not save us by cleansing us from defilement, but announces publicly that the person baptized has placed his or her faith in Jesus Christ. Baptism symbolizes exactly what Noah experienced, a break with the old life that God wiped away - as a result of his faith in God’s word.

Baptism by the Holy Spirit places the believer into Christ, saving him. Water baptism is a visual testimony to the world of what has happened internally.

Summary, none of those passages says water baptism is necessary for salvation.


433 posted on 12/30/2013 9:32:17 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Truth is hate to those who hate the Truth)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

The water is necessary plus the faith. We agree to disagree, sort of - the water is the created (look at Genesis) method that the Lord uses. Baptism is a must to get into the Kingdom - Faith + water- Faith alone won’t do it - Why? Because we are flesh and not spirit alone - God made us flesh and we need an actual element (Genesis again) If we were purely spiritual beings - angels, we would not need the actual water.


435 posted on 12/30/2013 9:39:05 AM PST by stonehouse01
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

You been watching too much Jimmy Swaggart.


442 posted on 12/30/2013 10:31:36 AM PST by NKP_Vet ("Rather than love, than money, than fame, then give truth" ~ Henry David Thoreau)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Think of Jeff Foxworthy when you read this.

“If you believe that water is not required for baptism”.....
You might not understand scripture.


444 posted on 12/30/2013 10:35:21 AM PST by NKP_Vet ("Rather than love, than money, than fame, then give truth" ~ Henry David Thoreau)
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