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To: stonehouse01; metmom

Thanks for the heartfelt appeal. I do confess my sins when I sin against others. I go to them and ask for their forgiveness. I also forgive when those who wrong me, even if they don’t ask for forgiveness. Jesus set the example, I love Him, He is the Master so I will imitate Him. It won’t be anywhere close to His perfection but with the Holy Spirit’s conviction and strength I will drive on.

Now confessing sins to God, that should be done with daily prayers as the psalmists did. We pray to the Father through the Son and here is the scripture proof:

1 John 2:1-2 NABRE

My children, I am writing this to you so that you may not commit sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous one. He is expiation for our sins, and not for our sins only but for those of the whole world.(NABRE)

I will say, there is much hubris here on this thread telling others to repent and go to confession. I am reminded of the Pharisee and Publican parable. Also first take the beam out of your eye before the speck in your brothers eye.

Finally, there is a difference between penance and repentance. Repentance is a turning away and penance implies self punishment. As Paul says “godly sorrow leads to repentance which leads to Salvation.”


350 posted on 12/29/2013 7:36:38 PM PST by redleghunter
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To: redleghunter

Redleghunter

Confession is a Sacrament, which is the normative means that God Gives Grace. It is also called the Sacrament of Reconciliation and Penance, each which have distinct but related meanings and express different aspects of the same Sacrament. To say that Confession of sins was not done in a verbal external matter is your views of the Bibical text. To start with, Christ called his Apostles [which means to be sent] and gave them Authority over unclean spirits [MT 10:1] and bind and loose [MT 18:18] and then Christ states as the Father sent him He sends them…he breathed on them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit, If you Forgive the sins of any they are forgiven, if you retain the sins of any, they are retained [JN 20:21-23] St Paul in his Letter to the Romans describes his ministry as a “priestly service of the Gospel [Romans 15:16] and he also writes “All this is from God who through Christ has reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation that is Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God [2 Cor 5:18-20] In the Letter of St. James, we again here that the presbyters of the Church [elders in some translations] are to be called if anyone is sick and the should be anointed with oil..and if he has committed any sins, they will be forgiven…Therefore confess your sins to one another and pray for one another [James 5: 13-20

So From these passages, the Catholic Church has understood that the normative means thru which God wanted sinners to be reconciled to him in the Church, his Body, and by having the sinner make a public confession. The priest is the visible sign and the minister of the sacrament but it is God that forgives sins, which is in essence what the NT text above are pointing to In addition, the notion of Penance is rooted in both the OT and NT. For example, James 5:19-20 states my brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8 states “Above all hold unfailing your love for one another since love covers a multitude of sins” So Penance, praying for someone who hurt you, doing acts of charity do have some association to cover a multitude of sins, not all sins, which in and of itself points to a distinction of sins in the NT 1 John 1:8-9 states that “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful to and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness

Now, all of the NT epistles were written to those already baptized and part of the Church So asking them to confess their sins is consistent with the need of some form of Confession for sins committed after Baptism.

Now, you have your views of the NT and I have mine which are in line with the Catholic Church. For me, how did those Christians throughout history and those closest to the NT interpret the NT and they do consistently mention confession and penance

For example:

The Didache, written in the late 1st century states “Confess your sins in the Church..on the Lords Day, Gather to Break Bread and give thanks [Eucharist] after confessing your transgressions [Didache 4: 14]. St. Ignatius of Antioch, writing around 107 AD told those that those who had broken from the Church that in the exercise of penance, return to the unity of the Church….For where there is division and wrath, God does not dwell. To all of them repent and the Lord grants forgiveness, if they turn in penitence to the unity of God and communion with the Bishop {Letter to the Philadelphian’s]

St. Ireneaus, writing around 185-189 AD in Against Heresies states the Gnostics have deluded many women. Their consciences have been branded with hot iron. Some of these woman make a public confession, but others are ashamed to do this and in silence , as if withdrawing from themselves the hope of life of God, they either apostatize entirely or hesitate between two courses.”

In the 2nd century we see more of the same:

Saint Hippolytus of Rome writes “[The bishop conducting the ordination of the new bishop shall pray:] God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. . . . Pour forth now that power which comes from you, from your royal Spirit, which you gave to your beloved Son, Jesus Christ, and which he bestowed upon his holy apostles . . . and grant this your servant, whom you have chosen for the episcopate, [the power] to feed your holy flock and to serve without blame as your high priest, ministering night and day to propitiate unceasingly before your face and to offer to you the gifts of your holy Church, and by the Spirit of the high priesthood to have the authority to forgive sins, in accord with your command” (Apostolic Tradition 3 [A.D. 215]).

In addition, in the Second Century we have the writings of Origen and Saint Cyprian of Carthage. Origen writes “”[A final method of forgiveness], albeit hard and laborious [is] the remission of sins through penance, when the sinner . . . does not shrink from declaring his sin to a priest of the Lord and from seeking medicine, after the manner of him who say, ‘I said, “To the Lord I will accuse myself of my iniquity”’” (Homilies on Leviticus 2:4 [A.D. 248]).

Saint Cyprian of Carthage writes “The apostle [Paul] likewise bears witness and says: ‘ . . . Whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord’ [1 Cor. 11:27]. But [the impenitent] spurn and despise all these warnings; before their sins are expiated, before they have made a confession of their crime, before their conscience has been purged in the ceremony and at the hand of the priest . . . they do violence to [the Lord’s] body and blood, and with their hands and mouth they sin against the Lord more than when they denied him” (The Lapsed 15:1–3 (A.D. 251]).
“Of how much greater faith and salutary fear are they who . . . confess their sins to the priests of God in a straightforward manner and in sorrow, making an open declaration of conscience. . . . I beseech you, brethren, let everyone who has sinned confess his sin while he is still in this world, while his confession is still admissible, while the satisfaction and remission made through the priests are still pleasing before the Lord” (ibid., 28).

“[S]inners may do penance for a set time, and according to the rules of discipline come to public confession, and by imposition

I could continue to go into the 4th century and cite St. Basil the Great, St. John Chrysostom, Saint Ambrose of Milan, St. Jerome and St. Augustine. St. Basil writes “It is necessary to confess our sins to whom the dispensation of God’s Mysteries [Sacraments] is entrusted. John Chrysostom cited John 20: 21-23 and talks about the Priests given the power to forgive sins and hear confessions. [The Priesthood, 387 AD]. Ambrose, Jerome and Augustine make similar arguments about confession and penance. Jerome’s arguments are based on two of his commentaries, one on Ecclesiastes and the other on Saints Matthew. Saint Augustine is telling the catechumens [those about to be baptized] in his sermon on the Creed that in the Church, there are 3 ways of in which sins are forgiven, Baptism, Prayer and the “Greater humility of Penance!!!”

In summary, while you don’t think there is such as thing as confession, the NT does show it and the early Church Fathers, the ones who defended orthodox Doctrine related to the Trinity, Christ, etc, are the same ones who wrote about Confession and Penance.

You can find translations of the Fathers on line at newadvent.org, a Catholic site or the Christian Classics Ethereal Library, a Reformed cite.


369 posted on 12/29/2013 8:56:15 PM PST by CTrent1564
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To: redleghunter

Oh well - do considee Rev, 21-27 and our Lord giving the power to his apostles.

The psalmsts were pre ressurection


394 posted on 12/29/2013 10:26:18 PM PST by stonehouse01
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