Posted on 12/28/2013 3:59:04 PM PST by NYer
A Harris survey showed a broader trend towards secularization in America. From 2005 to 2009, belief in God was over 80% [82% in I think all of the surveys]. Those numbers are now down to 74% saying they believe in God. The other 26% are divided between atheism 12% and not sure [agnostic 14%] or an overall decline of 8%.
So it is clear that most of the Catholics how have left are moving to unaffiliated or outright atheism. In addition, what the Catholic Church is experiencing is going on in every other Christian community. The notion that some Protestant Churches are growing is nonsense, they are only getting members from other Protestant Groups whose numbers are declining. So the what you are getting are changes of address.
Again, there is a general decline in belief in God across the spectrum of American society. If you go back even 30 or so years ago, belief in God was probably 90%. The trend whether all here want to admit it or not is a movement towards atheistic secularism in this country. If you think the Catholic Church is the only one dealing with this, your leaving in a bubble.
I don’t know, I went to a friend to his Catholic mass on Christmas day. The church had two masses going at all times and several times throughout the day. It was full to the last seat.
I've had faithful Catholics tell me, some on FR and some to my face, that suffering is a gift to be offered up to God.
Why would you blame the person who is sick for being sick when the Catholic church teaches that it's a blessing?
That is no different than the Protestant pentecostals who teach that sickness is a result of sin in someone's life or a lack of faith.
You aren't going Prot on us now, are you?
VERY few.
But if I were looking for the "original" church, I would go to the Orthodox: the doctrine is essentially the same, but the hierarchical setup and the "style" of the RC is more medieval/Renaissance, while that of the Orthodox is pre-medieval.
“The only reason my family went to church is because my father dragged my mother and me/sibling down there. He actually liked church. Once he died, we stopped going. It’s a very depressing place.”
Wow! With me it is the opposite. At church I can hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the wisdom of the prophets, the beauty of the Psalms, etc. Outside of church I see a lot of arrogance resulting in misery.
All read in monotone surroundedby bland music and cookie cutter homilies. Your average Catholic Mass has all the joy of homeroom.
And your point is...?
Best post on the thread.
” The notion that some Protestant Churches are growing is nonsense, they are only getting members from other Protestant Groups whose numbers are declining. So the what you are getting are changes of address.”
Obviously, I can’t generalize to all churches, but I can tell you that the quote is absolutely false in regards to the assembly I attend - and others I am familiar with. I am witnessing an amazing influx of formerly unchurched converts, tattooed, pierced, turning to Christ, trusting Him, following Him in baptism and in changed lives. Virtually all are coming because someone who cared about them at work or through some other connection invited them to come.
Every time they schedule a baptism, there are 65 or more people who ask to follow Christ in baptism. They range in age from 10 to +80. I’ve witnessed hundreds and heard how they came to Christ and why they want to now follow Him publicly in believers’ baptism.
The church has grown by thousands since I began to fellowship there. They have planted 5 other churches where the same thing is happening. All glory to God.
Having written that, it is perfectly normal and acceptable and right that if a believer is in a Church that has strayed from truth, he or she SHOULD leave and find a new church to fellowship at and to follow Christ in the company of other committed believers. I’m sure that is happening too. It is also a wonderful thing.
That just isn’t true, while you can argue that Catholicism drives people from Christ or into Mormonism, or whatever you want to claim, the reality is that many of those who leave the Catholic denomination switch to another Christian denomination.
“This is also exactly what mormons teach.
“And your point is...?
...............
THAT was my point. If there is a reason, I’ll leave you to sort it out.
Likewise for the Catholic church. The only reason its numbers are stationary is because of illegal immigration.
While what you say is true as far as it goes, chapter 6 in Saint John, at least for the devout Catholic, takes precedence to the excellence of some really nice protestant messages, which are generally more motivating by miles.
But, the wonderful message is not the Precious Body and Precious Blood of Christ in the Holy Eucharist.
We are desperate for spirit filled priests speaking to the spirit filled scrpture readings that are heard every Sunday. Many give milk endlessly, like Ted with his first reader. :)
Not *very few*.
Very many.
There are many churches here in CNY and WNY that are chock-a-block full of converted Catholics.
There are hardly any converts more on fire for Christ once they find Him than a converted Catholic.
In some cases it is, but not all.
Why would you blame the person who is sick for being sick when the Catholic church teaches that it's a blessing?
That is no different than the Protestant pentecostals who teach that sickness is a result of sin in someone's life or a lack of faith.
Where did I say I blame you, I am simply making an observation. However it seems to have pricked your conscience, might be worthy of further consideration.
You aren't going Prot on us now, are you?
Been there done that got the T-shirt and was smart enough to give up my errant ways. The great thing is that I was smart enough to realize that I left due to poor Catechesis, and smart enough to realize I could come back.
A minor reason, not a major reason as you assert. Catholics historically anyway, leave and go no where else until they return, (or not).
While that may be changing somewhat in these days of Apostasy, that has not been the case, nor a “major reason”, historically speaking.
All this to see what was a simply the breaking of bread to be shared as part of a larger communal meal, turned into a precisely ordained elaborate ritual or play, in which the elements and consuming them are the focus and not the sharing the people as as body of Christ are to show in eating the bread together, as being unified with the selfless crucified Christ.
This is why Paul said that when the Corinthians came together therefore into one place to eat the Lord's supper, they really were not, (1 Corinthians 11:20)as they went ahead and eat independent of others, filling themselves while others went hungry, thus they shamed them that have not. (Vs. 21,22)
For as often as they ate this bread, and drink this cup, they were to shew, to proclaim, the Lord's death till he come. (1 Corinthians 11:26) But which they did not by ignoring others and focusing on meeting their own needs, effectively not recognizing the body of Christ as the church. Which is the focus in context.
And which meeting your own needs under the assumption a wafer and wine is the body of Christ, not taking part in communal meal which examples sharing in union with Christ, who bought the church with His own blood, is what it seems your focus is.
And the Poor Catechesis rap means the church they promote is a poor teacher, and or this is what she allows. Not because they actually get what Rome effectually conveys, which it does at every liberal Catholic's funeral, which is that as long as you die in her arms, she will help you attain glory. Only when such convert and become conservative evangelicals is real alarm shown. Competition you see.
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