Posted on 12/28/2013 3:59:04 PM PST by NYer
I did not say salvation was wrong, I also did not say her or she was correct. I just said I don’t know. I just laid out what excommunication is and what it is not. Again, Kennedy by his actions “may have excommunicated himself” latae sententiae. There are some who hold to that position.
So he may have incurred it or he may not have. That is a question that is open for debate, although one that now that Ole Teddy is dead, I think is unnecessary and I will not get into. Others may want to. that is fine.
What I did say is that a Catholic can be denied a Funeral Liturgy if one is a Notorius Apostate, heretic or schismatic or public sinner whose Funeral Mass could cause scandal. In other words, those excommunications that I mentioned earlier. However, as the New Catholic Encylopedia states (p.171), If such a person [as noted above] gave some sign of repentance before death, and ecclesiastical burial with funeral Rites may take place [Canon Law 1176-1185].
So my take on it is that Teddy Kennedy before he died did indeed show signs of repentance given that he did have a Catholic Funeral Liturgy.
LOL, OK, you don’t know.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-francis-abortion-cries-out-in-vengeance-to-god-church-will-never-chang
Read the link: Here's the headline:
Pope Francis: Abortion ‘cries out in vengeance to God’; Church will never change teaching
Where do you see sources on it?
ansell2:
That is a statement that is a red herring. He was a baptized Catholic yes and he was a democrat. He was a lay person just like everyone else here. And the reason most Catholics have historically supported the Democratic party goes back to FDR and Truman and the fact that the old line Republican part was vehemently anti-Catholic. So what you have now is this notion that my grandparents and great grandparents were Democrats so what you have now, is a view, rightly or wrongly, that the Republican Party is run by elitist country Club WASP.
I know this because when I first publicly supported Reagan in the 80’s, I heard this from many of my relatives.
Now again, Ted Kennedy was in the eyes of the Church just like every other baptized Catholic, someone that the Church saw as a son or daughter, albeit, a prodigal one, but someone who needed God’s Mercy and Grace just like everyone else.
Thanks. I reckon the takeover would have to be an international plan and not just confined to the US.
You know, I wonder if a lot of the Communist founders were queer like so many of the German National Socialist Labor party leaders were?
Having heard Malachi Martin on radio he seemed like one of the good guys.
** I can STILL after these 35+ years, recite along with parts of the mass.**
That’s amazing, because much of it has changed to make it more true to the Latin.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3106141/posts?page=189#189
Read the book. It is a privilege to proclaim the truth, not a “have to” LOL
!
ansel12: No LOL. I laid out what excommunication is and what it is not. Did Kennedy ever publicly deny the Resurrection, Divinity of CHrist. Did he procur and abortion? Did he promote schism. Did he promote heresy? On that one, maybe he did, ie his support for abortion rights? Regarless if he did incur informal excommunication, if he repented of his sins, he was entitled to the Rite of Christian Burial just like any other Catholic, the poor janitor, the elderly Lady in a nursing home or even a politician whose views I don’t support like Ted Kennedy.
For the record, was Bill Clinton, Al Gore and Jimmy Carter ever kicked out of the Southern Baptist Convention? All of them were baptized and raised in the Southern Baptist Church and had views just as liberal as Ted Kennedy?
meant bringing this fallen world closer to hell
These figures for the United States. The Catholic Church continues to grow despise what is reported by the media. So for every person that lives the faith two come in.
Looks to me like the Catholic population is growing.
Catholic population (The Official Catholic Directory)
1965 - 45.6m
1975 - 48.7m
1985 - 52.3m
1995 - 57.4m
2000 - 59.9m
2005 - 64.8m
2013 - 66.8m
You must not be familiar with latae sententiae
I am not making judgments. I am only passing along information. Please check it out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latae_sententiae
I have given you this information previously. I am certain that you are not intentionally bearing false witness. Please make a copy of this and save it so that you will not repeat your error again.
Scripture in the order of the mass
Nearly everything we say at mass has its roots in Sacred Scripture. This guide will help you if anyone you know is in doubt about that. Catholics quote scripture all the time, and their actions are deeply scriptural. After all, scripture flowed out of the early Church. The Church came first, the New Testament and the canon of scripture second.
Greeting
Priest: In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. (Matt. 28:19)
People: Amen (1 Chr 16:36)
Priest: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all. (2 Cor 13:13)
People: And with your spirit.
Liturgy of the Word
Penitential Rite
All: I confess to almighty God and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have greatly sinned, (Jas 5:16) in my thoughts and in my words (Jas 3:6) in what I have done and in what I have failed to do, (Rom. 12:16) through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault; therefore I ask blessed Mary ever-Virgin, all the Angels and Saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God.(1Thess 5:25)
Priest: May almighty God have mercy on us, forgive us our sins, and bring us to everlasting life. (1 John 1:9)
People: Amen (1 Chr 16:36)
All: Lord have mercy. (Tb 8:4) Christ have mercy. (1 Tim 1:2) Lord have mercy.
Gloria
All: Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to people of good will. (Luke 2:14)We praise you, we bless you, we adore you, we glorify you,we give you thanks for your great glory, (Rev 7:12)Lord God, heavenly King, O God, almighty Father (Rev 19:6)Lord Jesus Christ, Only Begotten Son, (2 John 3)Lord God, Lamb of God, Son of the Father,you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us; (John 1:29)you take away the sins of the world, receive our prayer;you are seated at the right hand of the Father, have mercy on us. (Rom 8:34)For you alone are the Holy One, (Luke 4:34)you alone are the Lord, you alone are the Most High, Jesus Christ, (Luke 1:32)with the Holy Spirit, in the glory of God the Father, Amen (John 14:26)
[The Liturgy of the Word consists of four readings from Scripture: the first is typically from the Old Testament, the second a psalm, followed by a reading from one of the epistles. Finally, the Gospel is proclaimed during which the people stand out of respect for the Word. The chosen readings change daily.]A Sermon on the readings follows. (2 Tim 4:1-2) Profession of Faith All: I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, (Gen 14:19) of all things visible and invisible. (Col 1:16) I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Begotten Son of God, (Luke 1:35) born of the Father before all ages, God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God, begotten not made, consubstantial with the Father; (Heb 1:3) through him all things were made. (John 1:2-3) For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: (John 3:13) and by the power of the Holy Spirit he was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, (Matt 1:18) and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:16) he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures. (1 Cor 15:3-4) He ascended into heaven (Luke 24:51) and is seated at the right hand of the Father. (Col 3:1) He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead (2 Tim 4:1) and his kingdom will have no end. (Luke 1:33) I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of Life, (Acts 2:17) who proceeds from the Father and the Son, (John 14:16) who with the Father and Son is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the prophets. (1 Peter 1:10-11) I believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic Church. (Rom 12:5) I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38) and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. (Rom 6:5) Amen
Liturgy of the Eucharist
[The gifts are brought to the altar. These include the bread and wine and the offering collected from the people.] (Malachi 3:10)
Priest: Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this bread to offer, which earth has given and human hands have made. (Eccl. 3:13) It will become for us the bread of life. (John 6:35)
People: Blessed be God forever. (Ps 68:36)
Priest: Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this wine to offer, fruit of the vine and work of human hands. It will become our spiritual drink. (Luke 22:17-18)
People: Blessed be God forever. (Ps 68:36)
Priest: Pray, brethren, that our sacrifice may be acceptable to God, the almighty Father. (Heb. 12:28)
People: May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands for the praise and glory of his name, for our sake and the good of all his holy Church. (Ps 50:23)
Priest: The Lord be with you.
People: And with your spirit.
Priest: Lift up your hearts.
People: We lift them up to the Lord. (Lam 3:41)
Priest: Let us give thanks to the Lord our God. (Col 3:17)
People: It is right and just. (Col 1:3)
Preface Acclamation
All: Holy, holy, holy Lord, God of hosts. Heaven and earth are full of your glory. (Is 6:3) Hosanna in the highest. Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. Hosanna in the highest. (Mark 11:9-10)
Eucharistic prayer [There are four of these, based on ancient prayers of the Church.
Eucharistic Prayer Two follows as an example:]
Priest: You are Holy indeed, O Lord the fount of all holiness. (2 Macc. 14:36) Make holy, therefore, these gifts, we pray, by sending down your Spirit upon them like the dewfall, so that they may become the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. At the time he was betrayed and entered willingly into his Passion (John 10:17-18) he took bread and, giving thanks, broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying: Take this all of you, and eat of it: For this is my body which will be given up for you. In a similar way, when supper was ended, he took the chalice and, once more giving thanks, he gave the it to his disciples, saying: Take this, all of you, and drink from it: For this is the chalice of my blood, the blood of the new and eternal covenant. Which will be poured out for you and for many for the forgiveness of sins. Do this is memory of me. (Mark 14:22-25) Let us proclaim the mystery of faith.
All: When we eat this Bread and drink this Cup, we proclaim your Death, O Lord, until you come again. (1Cor 11:26)
Priest: Therefore, as we celebrate the memorial of his Death and Resurrection, we offer you, Lord, the Bread of life and the Chalice of salvation, (John 6:51) giving thanks that you have held us worthy to be in your presence and minister to you. Humbly we pray that, partaking of the Body and Blood of Christ, we may be gathered into one by the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor.10:17) Remember, Lord, your Church spread throughout the world; bring her to the fullness of charity, together with our Pope and our bishop, and all the clergy. Remember our brothers and sisters who have fallen asleep and all who have died in your mercy: welcome them into the light of your face. (2 Macc 12:45-46) Have mercy on us all, we pray, that with the blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, with the apostles and with all the saints who have pleased you throughout the ages, may we merit to be co-heirs to eternal life, and may praise and glorify you through your Son, Jesus Christ. (2 Thes 1:4-5) Through him, with him, in him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor is yours, almighty Father, for ever and ever.
All: Amen. (Rom 11:36)
Communion Rite
The Lord's Prayer:
All: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. (Matt 6:9-13)
Priest: Deliver us, Lord, we pray, from every evil, graciously grant peace in our days that by the help of your mercy, we may be always free from sin and safe from all distress, as we await the blessed hope and the coming of our Saviour, Jesus Christ. (John 17:15)
All: For the kingdom the power and the glory are yours, now and forever. Amen
Priest: Lord Jesus Christ, you said to your apostles; I leave you peace, my peace I give to you. (John 14:27) Look not on our sins, but on the faith of your Church, and grant us the peace and unity of your kingdom where you live forever and ever.
Priest: The peace of the Lord be with you always! (John 20:19)
People: And with your spirit!
[The priest then directs the people to exchange a sign, such as a handshake or a kiss, or a word of God's peace to one another.]
Breaking of the Bread
All: Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world: have mercy on us. Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world: have mercy on us. Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace. (John 1:29)
Communion
Priest: Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who takes away the sins of the world. Blessed are those who are called to the supper of the Lamb. (Rev. 19:9)
People: Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed. (Matt 8:8)
[Communion is distributed to the faithful at the altar by the priest and lay ministers.]
Dismissal
Priest: Blessed be the name of the Lord. Now and forever. (Dan 2:20) May almighty God bless you, the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:51) Go in peace (Luke 7:50) to love and serve the Lord. (2 Chr 35:3)[During the blessing the people make the Sign of the Cross, the traditional sign of the baptized and a public sign of their belief in the power of God.]
People: Thanks be to God. (2 Cor 9:15)
Non-sequitur
I’m not speaking of Ted in ‘god” terms.. I think you knew that, correct?
Blasphamy. Those who mock the Lord Jesus Christ pay in the end. It’s sad, and really sad that it’s usually lapsed Catholics that were ignorant of the faith to start with. Then they are not ignorant and continue to spit in the face of God by belittling His pilgrim church on earth.
You are really bad a logic aren’t you?
“...I realize you believe because you have to ...”
You are the same - you believe in the bible because you have to ...
Because it is in the bible!!!
All of our beliefs are in the bible.
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