Thomas Tallis: If ye love me
Posted on 12/28/2013 10:20:36 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
As to "in church" I mean that not so much broadly as to the Church (body of Christ), but as to which styles are Biblically permitted in individual churches.
1.) At what point (scripturally) does a church worship team (for instance) go too far when plucking the bass guitar or electric guitar, or beat the drums too loudly? At what point is the "riff" (or beat) becoming too "wordly."
Define "wordly" music as opposed to non-wordly music if/when discussing this. I ask this of those who lean more towards the Michael W. Smith type worship services or to those who like the Southern Gospel type worship services.
2.) At what point does "Southern Gospel" music become a little too Southern and thus become too worldly/honkey-tonk/Country/Country Rock? I ask this of those say they like who like what they deem to be Godly "Southern Gospel."
3.) I still can't find any scripture that exegetically/hermeneutically says that a service must be marked by only Latin/Gregorian chanting. Surely these churches can imploy other "styles" of music, too, at least in the "main" service.
I dunno.. but.. did you know that in the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century, John Calvin, and other Reformers absolutely forbade the use of ORGANS and Chiors in the Worship service.. for they “smacked” of Popery..
In the aftermath of the Reformation, the Reformed churches developed what is usually called the REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE OF WORSHIP..This principle teaches that the public worship of God should include those and only those elements that are instituted, commanded, or appointed by command or example in the Bible. In other words, it is the belief that God institutes in Scripture whatever he requires for worship in the Church, and everything else should be avoided.
The “regulative principle” is often contrasted with the “normative principle” of worship, which teaches that whatever is not prohibited in Scripture is permitted in worship, so long as it is agreeable to the peace and unity of the Church. In other words, there must be agreement with the general practice of the Church and no prohibition in Scripture for whatever is done in worship.
In this light.. many churches which are from the Reformed and Presbyterian theological perspective, use Exclusive Psalmnody within their worship services..with NO instruments used.
Others, who are also Reformed or Presbyterian, see nothing wrong with useing Traditional Hymnody, with pianos, organs, chiors..orchestras..
Me? I attend a PCA church..(Presbyterian Church in America).. we have no restrictions in the use of music in our worship services, other than the lyrics must be Scriptural... we often use Hymns written by contemporary hymn writers Keith and Kristyn Getty, or very old hymns in the INDELIBLE GRACE style.. (If you’ve not heard of INDELIBLE GRACE..you’re in for a treat.. here are all of their albums, they’ve placed them all on line for everyone to listen to..Free, no charge, just click any album cover to hear the complete album.. -http://indeliblegrace.bandcamp.com/
It seems to me that sacred music, along with music in general has gone downhill over the past century. When was the last time you heard a memorable symphony or concerto written by a contemporary composer?
Most “modern” hymns that I have heard are politically correct screeds set to insipid, boring tunes that sound like elevator music. Then there’s “praise” music, also known as “24/7” music—seven words repeated 24 times and set to cacophonous rock beats.
Our hymnals should be filled with quality tunes that glorify God.
Thank you for explaining the difference between the “regulative principle” and the “normative principle.” I had never heard that before, and it goes some distance toward clearing a few puzzlements up for me.
I appreciate that.
Yet the new testament mentions musical instruments in heaven.
The joy is in your heart and in your spirit because of your love for Christ. It’s not necessarily the music, but when you express that joy that flows from your heart, the music will be the outward expression of it.
Yeah.
Indelible Grace—that’s not congregational music fit for a service. It’s CCM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPPlGFh6OpQ
I do too...But I danced to it enough times, drunk at the bar, that I have a hard time relating it to a Christian song...
“The reason I am posting this, is because there is a youth pastor on television near-constantly harping on what he believes to be God’s type or style of music and decrying those styles (that he apparently doesn’t agree with) as being worldly.”
One of the reasons I don’t go to church any more, “if you don’t agree with me you are going to hell”. Reminds me of my grandmother. If you are worshiping God in a way that enhances your relationship and understanding, you are doing it right. The rules put in place by man have little relationship to your standing with God. I left several churches because the pastor failed in his duty to be a guide and instead became “the law”. Petty dictators are petty dictators no matter what authority they claim.
You make a very good point in your post # 18. Thank you.
I need the blessing, I kid you not. Music is hard. The better music is even harder. I don’t get to play just anything. In fact, when my heart’s not in it, I have to perform my super best. Ufda! It’s good to be around people who have the passion to perform; it’s bad to be around those who don’t and think anything goes. Good music is like gold, hard to find, hard to play.
Of course I suffer my daughter when she hoots and hollers and then tell her, “You’re a good singer, aren’t you?” Builds ego, at best. I know what will happen when I make her practice. She doesn’t—yet. It’s work.
The other thing I object to is the churches that judge your spirituality based on how you conform to their expectations.
Do you not raise your hands? How cold and dead.
Do you look like you're having a seizure? Look how free they are in expressing their worship, how *undignified* they are. WOW! What a spiritual person they are!
I was in a church where the pastor actually used someone who was *worshiping* like that as an example in front of the whole congregation on a Sunday morning, of how much this guy loved the Lord, how someone who loved the Lord should be worshiping and how he wished more people could be that passionate about it.
Don't judge me if I raise my hands. Don't judge me if I don't.
Don't judge me if I speak in tongues. Don't judge me if I don't.
Don't decide for me how you think God should be working in my life and judge me when it doesn't happen the way you think it should. I've had THAT happen too often as well.
Not much appeal for me...First one was just a bunch of harmonious noise...2nd was the same sang in a foreign language...No edification...
All the focus is on the noise and skill of the performers...
I don't know how one could be up in the Mountains of Montana and not think of God...The word splendor comes to mind...
#1 - We are not in heaven.
#2 - I’d like a reference the musical instruments in heaven. I can’t find it.
#1 - We are not in heaven.
#2 - I’d like a reference the musical instruments in heaven. I can’t find it.
We're not in heaven. You're right. Its gonna be a lot louder than any church service you or I have been in. If you're one of those "I want church quiet" kind of people. You better start getting used to the idea of it being loud. Revelation 5 (the whole chapter) Revelation 19. Is what it is.
In the book of Revelation it says “they sang a new song to the Lord”. Now that’s gonna torque a lot of people. A new song? What in the world was the matter with the old ones? :)
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