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To: Iscool

No, its not just as clear nor what you think. Here is a good explanation:

1. There is no reason to take this verse to mean that Christ was saying that he and the Father make up “one God.” The phrase was a common one, and even today if someone used it, people would know exactly what he meant—he and his father are very much alike. When Paul wrote to the Corinthians about his ministry there, he said that he had planted the seed and Apollos had watered it. Then he said, “he who plants and he who waters are one” (1 Cor. 3:8 – KJV). In the Greek texts, the wording of Paul is the same as that in John 10:30, yet no one claims that Paul and Apollos make up “one being.” Furthermore, the NIV translates 1 Corinthians 3:8 as “he who plants and he who waters have one purpose.” Why translate the phrase as “are one” in one place, but as “have one purpose” in another place? In this case, translating the same phrase in two different ways obscures the clear meaning of Christ’s statement in John 10:30: Christ always did the Father’s will; he and God have “one purpose.”

2. Christ uses the concept of “being one” in other places, and from them one can see that “one purpose” is what is meant. John 11:52 says Jesus was to die to make all God’s children “one.” In John 17:11, 21 and 22, Jesus prayed to God that his followers would be “one” as he and God were “one.” We think it is obvious that Jesus was not praying that all his followers would become one being or “substance” just as he and his Father were one being or “substance.” We believe the meaning is clear: Jesus was praying that all his followers be one in purpose just as he and God were one in purpose, a prayer that has not yet been answered.

3. The context of John 10:30 shows conclusively that Jesus was referring to the fact that he had the same purpose as God did. Jesus was speaking about his ability to keep the “sheep,” the believers, who came to him. He said that no one could take them out of his hand and that no one could take them out of his Father’s hand. Then he said that he and the Father were “one,” i.e., had one purpose, which was to keep and protect the sheep.


308 posted on 12/24/2013 8:06:36 PM PST by tedw
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To: tedw

Do you believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God?


309 posted on 12/24/2013 8:27:27 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: tedw
No, its not just as clear nor what you think. Here is a good explanation:

That is YOUR explanation to justify your bent on the subject...There's too much scripture that that doesn't allow for your interpretation...

363 posted on 12/25/2013 9:03:36 AM PST by Iscool
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To: tedw

1. There is no reason to take this verse to mean that Christ was saying that he and the Father make up “one God.”
***There is plenty of reason, including the plain text of what was stated in the gospels and how it was reacted to by a first century jewish audience: It was blasphemy (assuming it wasn’t true).

The phrase was a common one,
***Nonsense. Produce historical evidence of such a claim. Especially since the crowd usually wanted to stone Jesus when He made such claims.

even today if someone used it, people would know exactly what he meant—he and his father are very much alike.
***Baloney. The crowd rightfully tried to stone Him for such a claim because they thought it wasn’t true.

When Paul wrote to the Corinthians about his ministry there, he said that he had planted the seed and Apollos had watered it. Then he said, “he who plants and he who waters are one” (1 Cor. 3:8 – KJV).
***Does that mean you will be restricting yourself to the King James Version throughout your argumentation? Because if so, I doubt you can make the case. Basically, your argument is disingenuous at best. For instance, in the NIV, John 29:
30 I and the Father are one.” 31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him,
and 1Cor3:8
8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor.

In the Greek texts, the wording of Paul is the same as that in John 10:30, yet no one claims that Paul and Apollos make up “one being.” Furthermore, the NIV translates 1 Corinthians 3:8 as “he who plants and he who waters have one purpose.” Why translate the phrase as “are one” in one place, but as “have one purpose” in another place?
***because it is the best evidence available, rather than the nonsense you’ve been pushing.

In this case, translating the same phrase in two different ways obscures the clear meaning of Christ’s statement in John 10:30: Christ always did the Father’s will; he and God have “one purpose.”
***If only you completely disregard all the other places in scripture where Jesus claimed Deity and His followers did so as well.

2. Christ uses the concept of “being one” in other places, and from them one can see that “one purpose” is what is meant. John 11:52 says Jesus was to die to make all God’s children “one.” In John 17:11, 21 and 22, Jesus prayed to God that his followers would be “one” as he and God were “one.”
***Fantastic, other than the fact that those who heard it didn’t immediately try to stone him for claiming equality with God. One must take the ENTIRE scriptures to figure out what’s being said.

We think it is obvious that Jesus was not praying that all his followers would become one being or “substance” just as he and his Father were one being or “substance.” We believe the meaning is clear: Jesus was praying that all his followers be one in purpose just as he and God were one in purpose, a prayer that has not yet been answered.
***All that work for one passage, and yet there are dozens of other passages to belabor in order to remove the plain meaning and insert a heretical viewpoint.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3104583/posts

3. The context of John 10:30 shows conclusively
***No it doesn’t, in context of other scriptures.

that Jesus was referring to the fact that he had the same purpose as God did. Jesus was speaking about his ability to keep the “sheep,” the believers, who came to him. He said that no one could take them out of his hand and that no one could take them out of his Father’s hand. Then he said that he and the Father were “one,” i.e., had one purpose, which was to keep and protect the sheep.
***It is an interesting perspective but, once one looks at the rest of the evidence in context, one realizes that what is being pushed here is simple heresy.


463 posted on 12/25/2013 8:07:30 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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