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To: CynicalBear

In my opinion, you are arguing something we don’t disagree on. I believe their ruination will be unending. Eternal. I believe they will die and “stay dead”. Their death will be unending.

Also, you said, “Put together with other passages in scripture and we can understand there is unending torment or suffering”. I see it as exactly the opposite. As I’ve mentioned before, beyond my normal bible study, I listen to the bible on a thumb drive plugged into my dashboard on my commute. My daily commute is 2.5 hours. Just listening to His word withoug verse breaks and fumbling gives one yet another angle to study and learn. Frankly, I’m amazed at how much scripture mentions the fate of the lost. I’m also amazed that virtually every time it says they will die in pretty plain language.

If I came to the Lord just by reading His word, but ignored the highly stylistic and symbolic prose of revelation, I would never come away with the idea that non-believers are tortured for all eternity. I would come away with the belief that my loving God sacrificed His only sone that anyone who accepted His free gift would not be destroyed like an animal, a tree, etc.

The eternal torture thing would never even enter my mind for another reason - it does not match the personality of the God of the bible. Even in His anger and wrath against men of the old testament, what was his punishment? Death and destruction to the point where they are no more. This included entire cities. And this is used as a model over and over again in the NT regarding the fate of the lost. It is, to me, crystal clear - and the “annihilation” meme perfectly matches the personality of the God of the old testament and new.

Regarding your warning in 2 Timothy 4:3, I hear you. I also believe no small number of people cautioned Martin Luther with the same verse. There is plenty of whacked doctrine out there. Study will clear it up, though. To be honest, it is how I view the eternal suffering meme (as well as the Left Behind stuff). But opinions vary.


118 posted on 12/17/2013 4:26:25 AM PST by cuban leaf
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To: cuban leaf
>>In my opinion, you are arguing something we don’t disagree on. I believe their ruination will be unending. Eternal. I believe they will die and “stay dead”. Their death will be unending.<<

Your “opinion” is irrelevant. Scripture describes the fate of those who reject Christ as “unending torture or torment”. I care not how “you see it” or how many hours you spend listening to scripture read to you in English. God’s “personality” also includes justice. What He says He means. “Opinions” and carnal wisdom will lead to “unending torture”.

124 posted on 12/17/2013 6:29:48 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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