You're Probably Not Saved, Yet.

Beyond Today ^ | 2013 | Various

[redleghunter]

Eph 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

These types of topic threads and discussions usually bank towards the accusation that whoever is not in a specific church must be doing these horrible sinful Lady Gaga orgie parties.

The Bible is clear. If we love Him we will obey Him. But that does not mean the Holy Spirit is coming and going every few days based on sins committed by a believer. Or do you think we sin no more after baptism and a man minister lays hands on us?

[American Constitutionalist]

I would say to God, there is nothing in my self that I could be ever justified before you even by doing good works or keeping the law, the only thing I can plea is “ NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST “ that I stand on alone and what he has done for me to reconcile me back to you.

[American Constitutionalist]

Yeah there is something about a edumacation that scars you for life.

[ex-snook]

"What if you committed a bad work that got you killed?"

I would not want to be him.

[American Constitutionalist]

" a little from an ex pastor who said he was not fit to preach for the Lord any more. "
At least he was honest.
But little does he know ? that's exactly the humility and attitude that God is looking for in someone to preach the Gospel because the sermon won't be about that person's life, or exploits, and him self.

Little did he know ? that him preaching the Gospel to you in a bar lead you to salvation in Christ.
God can reach anyone anywhere with the Gospel.

Preaching the Gospel of Christ is not about us, or our ego, it's about the good news of God's grace and God's salvation in Christ.

[ravenwolf]

But I put a LOT of emphasis on the word, “kinda”. That part was really fleeting.

---

Ok, i am glad it was you and not me, i thought i had saw a lot of crazy men but after i have saw a few crazy women i found out i did not know what crazy was.

[Gamecock]

Works done by those without faith are done out of lawlessness.

[American Constitutionalist]

He shall give his angels charge over you and keep you in all your ways.

[DouglasKC]

Your recent post (quoted) hinges on the aspect of “become Christian”. To follow through on you position, that is “completed” by a ^reception of the Spirit inwardly^.
To avoid the typical “where do you find that terminology or string-of-words in Scripture (avoiding eisegesis), I’ll simply ask, “in what way is the Holy Spirit made to dwell” in man (provided you agree that Christ died as the propitiation of mankind’s sin on the Cross).

2Ti 1:6 Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.
2Ti 1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Act 8:17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,

This is the normative biblical mechanism. In new testament scripture there are only two exceptions. One is the outpouring of God's spirit on Pentecost on the first Jewish Christians and the second is the outpouring of God's spirit on the first gentile Christians in Acts 10.

Other than that there are many scriptures that show that God's spirit is an indwelling presence in believers and it's the heat of the new covenant:

Hbr 8:10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

This is a description of the effects of that indwelling spirit.

1Cr 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

[Gluteus Maximus]

Bingo! I think you hit the nail on the head. That’s exactly what it was. I don’t have time for Jesus so he doesn’t have time for me. Thanks for that. Ding, ding, ding. That’s what the dream meant. I’m so grateful.

[DouglasKC]

The Bible is clear. If we love Him we will obey Him. But that does not mean the Holy Spirit is coming and going every few days based on sins committed by a believer. Or do you think we sin no more after baptism and a man minister lays hands on us?

Of course I don't think that. I used Ephesians 2:3 to show that God expects a response, a change in our behavior, in response to his spirit.

[DouglasKC]

Works done by those without faith are done out of lawlessness.

I would agree with that to a certain extent. One aspect of sin is lawlessness....going against the law of God. An action or thought that violates the letter and spiritual principle of God's laws is lawlessness and in this regard most outside of the faith are continually wrapped up in sin. That's the way it is without God.

[ravenwolf]

Preaching the Gospel of Christ is not about us, or our ego, it’s about the good news of God’s grace and God’s salvation in Christ.

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Yes i agree, he no longer had the qualifications to be a pastor but that would not stop him from preaching, and obviously it did,nt.

[American Constitutionalist]

" Hbr 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins "

And just what is that " SIN " ?

The writer of the book of Hebrews was writing to a Hebrew audience.
He's talking about those who just on the verge of true salvation but later rejecting it totally.
The writer of the book of Hebrews explains in chapter 4 and other chapters what this particular sin is.

And what is this sin ?

The sin of unbelief.

Hebrews 4

1. Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.


Hebrews 3

12. Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.( there you go, a evil heart of unbelief ).
13. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.( there you go, the writer say to exhort one another lest you fall into the hardness through the deceitfulness of sin, and what is this sin ? unbelief ).
14. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15. while it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18. And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? ( those who believed not )
19. So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

The writer speaks much about unbelief and even calls it " SIN " .
Them coming out of Egypt into the promise land is as the same as us Christians before we got saved into our promised land and rest in Christ's salvation.
Verse 17 of chapter 3 ?

They didn't fall in the wilderness because they sinned or broke God's laws, they sinned because they refused to go into the promised land and didn't believe God that the land was theirs to take.
17. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned ( yeah, there is that word again, sinned, and it does not mean that they sinned and broke God's laws or commandments ) whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
So what is the Holy Spirit trying to show us here by this writer ?
This particular " SIN " is the sin of unbelief.



" Taken to the logical extreme someone could just as well say "well yeah, I believed you saved me, but I'm not going to let you live through me. No way. I'm going to keep sinning and doing my own thing and make a mockery of your sacrifice."


** Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, **

Yeah, I remember the pastors using this tried and true way to keep the people in line and in their control with this verse just like Malichi 3 and beat them over the head with it over and over again.

Yes, I use to believe what you believe and think like that until God had to open my eyes and see what that verse is really saying.

What Hebrews 10:26 is actually saying is that if you go and continue to reject, and refuse God's gift of Salvation in Christ and his grace, if your heart is so deep in hardness and continue to sin the sin of unbelief ?
Then your rejecting the very sacrifice that can save you and the only thing that you can expect is God's wrath.
Those people where not Europains, they were Hebrew Jews who were brought up in the Jewish traditions and laws and they had a taste of Christ but were not willing to go all the way and turned back in to Judaism rejecting Christ's salvation.

If we continue to flaunt, reject, refuse God's salvation in Christ because of the hardness of our hearts because of unbelief after we have received the knowledge of the truth ? then ? there is no more left any hope or sacrifice for our sins because we reject the very thing that can save us.

[Rashputin]

Oh yeah, Luther.

The same guy who said of the Pentateuch "We have no wish either to see or hear Moses"

If Luther is your benchmark you're as far off base as the author of the article is.

[American Constitutionalist]

The lawless are those who have not Christ, for Christ fulfilled the law and he has granted to us in our account justification and righteousness.
So those who already belong to Christ can never be counted as lawless.
Those who reject Christ and his grace, who set up their own form of religion are actually those who are lawless because they have not Christ in them.
Christ fulfilled the law, kept the law completely.... those who are Christ's and are in Christ's can never be counted as lawless.

You have Christ ? Christ is in you ? you are saved ? been justified in Christ ? then ? as far as God is concerned ? YOU have kept the law completely.

[redleghunter]

GarySpFc, Kenosis ping. See GPH response at 32.

[redleghunter]

Don’t forget in the same chapter 5 of Matthew Jesus says be perfect as the Father is. That is the verse I usually use because it is a very pronounced standard.

[CynicalBear]

>> I'm not sure how obeying God is an invalid "work" especially when the bible is crystal clear about it.<<

Jesus was VERY clear about it.

“Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:28-29

[American Constitutionalist]

I am not a Calvinist but it took Cavin to shed some light onto what the bible was saying about justification by faith.
So to about Luther.
But once again, I don't put my trust in man, I rely on what the bible shows me and what God teaches me.
I am not against good works, because that is what separates us from the rest of the world, we show God's love in good work.
What I don't believe is that good works leads to salvation or kepts you saved.
Same thing about the law, even Paul said in the book of Galatians 3 verse 11

11. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

And this is what Paul says after that.

12. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14. that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

He is basically say what James was saying in James chapter 2
So ? if your going to keep the law ? you have to keep all the law, because if you break one part of the law ? you break all the law.
James 2 verse 10

10. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

The only person who could have fulfilled the law and perform it perfectly to God's standards is Jesus Christ the anointed one.... he did not have the sin nature in him.
But ? he came to deliver us from the curse of the law and all that entails or goes with the curse, disease, sin, death, and the penalty of that sin.
No it does not give you a excuse to sin, or the personal responsibility from it, but there is a certain point that humans in our fallen nature that we are incapable to perform up to the very high standards of what God requires.
Why do you think ? that God gave a provision for that every year for the anointment of sin ? because even the Jews were not capable to live up to God's high standards.
Are you now ? in your present physical condition to be a 10 time Olympic Gold metal winner ? IMPOSSIBLE !
Same thing with keeping the law perfectly to God's high standards, IMPOSSIBLE !
With man ? it's impossible , with God ? all things are possible.
God knew that, so ? he made a way through the atonement to be reconciled back to him in Jesus Christ.

No man no matter who he or she is can never be made justified before God by the law, so God has to make another way.