Posted on 11/24/2013 10:16:03 AM PST by Salvation
-— I left the church because of their allowing priests to molest children -—
That was Church policy? Or were some bishops negligent in protecting their flocks?
Jesus told us that there would be wolves among us. And sin is everywhere, even in the Church.
The fact is that the rate of child abuse is highest among teachers and far lower among clergymen, especially priests, as determined by the John Jay commission.
hahahaha, i love GPH...so full of himself and what he thinx is truth....
his time will come....as if 2000 years of catholic church history meant nothing till he go here...
as if the greatest minds of catholicism, i.e. the church fathers, et al, nvr heard any of the ‘arguments’ rehashed liked warmed over stew in GPH’s little mind.
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“Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died;
this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die.
I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.”
The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?”
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”
These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum
Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?”
Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, “Does this shock you?
What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?
It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.
And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”
As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him
Jesus then said to the Twelve, “Do you also want to leave?”
Simon Peter answered him, “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God.”
Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you twelve? Yet is not one of you a devil?”
He was referring to Judas, son of Simon the Iscariot; it was he who would betray him, one of the Twelve.” [John 6: 49-71]
You cannot blame the entire Catholic Church for a few wayward priests. Are you aware that the ration of pedophile priests is lower than the national average?
Priests — 1.8 percent
National average — 2.00 percent.
The truth is with the Catholic Church and I think you know that.
What about the schools? Are you going to blame ALL the teachers just because of a few teachers, coaches, etc.??
Be honest here.
**There has been a little talk here and there, but there have been new cases all over the US.**
LOL! You must either be newbie or not acquainted with all the Protestants and other non-Catholics who always posted article about this. Where have you been?
A brain?
"Having read [Francis Beckwith]?s book, I am appalled at the blatant misrepresentation of both the Reformed teaching as well the teaching of Roman Catholicism. His lack of knowledge on historical issues is forgivable, given his ignorance, but to misrepresent and caricature the Reformed faith and to misrepresent the salvation teachings of Rome is simply irresponsible and dishonest..."There are many, many "former-Protestant-turns-Catholic" conversion stories posted on FR that bear these same marks. The majority focus on converts with a poor command of their former faith, who swam the Tiber in their early to mid twenties. Some bear witness to converts already being swayed by "every wind of doctrine" before they converted. Most of these conversion stories fall into a common theme - "fringe member (or non-member) starts out illiterate and ignorant of his/her own confession, then gains publicity and fame on EWTN by making a loud, trumpeted conversion to Catholicism."
-- from the internet article Why Scripture and the Facts of History Compel Me, a Former Roman Catholic, to Remain a Committed Evangelical Protestant
Take, for example, the story of James Akin. A convert in his mid-twenties, he was actually a whole lot of things before he became Catholic in his mid-twenties, but one Catholic FReeper hawked James as being a "former Presbyterian".
Another favorite is the story of Rodney Beason, supposedly a former Calvinist, and re-solicited as "a powerful conversion story". A first year college student, he claimed to have "a library full of Calvin, Luther, Warfield, Hodge, Murray, Owen, Machen, etc" and to have "helped plant a local Orthodox Presbyterian Church". A little digging on Google, however, and his conversion story was called into question. In the end, Rodney Beason himself signed up to FR just to provide all with the rest of his "powerful conversion story". Having abandoned the Catholic Church within two years of his 2002 conversion, he wishes Catholics would stop (re)publishing his story.
And then there's the tale of Rob Evans. I know what you're thinking - "who is Rob Evans?" Evans' previous claim to fame was a direct-to-VHS children's series titled The Donut Repair Club, marketed to children in Evangelical households in the early 1990s. When he wasn't entertaining children, Rob was a Presbyterian Pentecostal Baptist multiple-church-splitting spiritual wanderer, who was kicked out of at least one congregation before his conversion to Catholicism. His conversion nicely coincided with EWTN acquiring broadcasting rights to his out-of-production Donut Repair Club.
Finally, there's Fr. Erik J. Richtsteig, billed as a "former Mormon" The problem is, Fr. Richtsteig stopped being Mormon when he was eight years old, meaning he had never held office, never been on a mission, never been through a Temple ceremony. His "Mormon" experience was limited to Sunday attendance (without his mother) "sporadically".
I wonder how many of these Catholic converts actually attended churches that proclaimed the whole council of God? A question I would ask is how many Catholic converts previously went to churches with strong systematic confessions of faith, like the Westminster Confession, and how often were they taught the confession, like in a Sunday School class, and how well did their minister cover all the doctrines in the confession of faith? I would expect some rather weak answers.
-- from the thread Systematic Theology and Catholic Converts
The incidence of child abuse in the government schools is higher than the Church. Does that mean you will shun the schools too?
One more thing. The ratio among non-Catholic ministers is far higher that Catholic priests.
Are you aware that the most common pedophiles are someone who knows the child, such as a family member? Next? Teachers? Next? Coaches
So if someone is a family member, teaches a high school or mid high class, coaches the girl’s basketball team and is a youth minister — Yikes — watch out.
“You will come back some day, I’m sure.”
You Must be JOKING!
I was raised in a Staunch Catholic Church, - after Jackie K. married a divorce Wealthy man things became suddenly clear to me. The Catholics are all about the money!
IF Jackie and Ari would have been Middle Class, - Jackie would have been excommunicated and never allowed to receive
the Sacraments again. Not so however, if you got enough money you can do what ever you want and the POPE will bless it all. Jackie was buried with full rites of the Catholic Church. Good for her. The Facts speak for themselves.
The Catholic Church = the Biggest double standard TWO FACED
organization on the face of the Earth. I received Salvation
in ‘83 at a Bible Believing Baptist Church and wouldn’t go back to the Catholic Church for anything under the Sun!
Get a Bible, start reading and remember the Pope is just a man just like anyone else. You don’t need to get cleaned up to take a bath. Jesus did it all at the Cross! Amen.
Going to a Catholic Church every Sunday, makes you no more of a Christian, than going in your Garage makes you a Car.
Jackie Kennedy was a widow; she could marry. I don’t know if the man got an annulment or not. But why are you judging the entire Catholic Church on the actions of one person?
You, too, will come back again someday. I’m not joking.
Are you familiar with what happens in apocalyptic and historical writings? You may want to check them out.
**Get a Bible, start reading and remember the Pope is just a man just like anyone else. You don’t need to get cleaned up to take a bath. Jesus did it all at the Cross! Amen.**
You are swallowing someone’s lies. Catholics read the Bible. Good grief, I have taught Bible studies on
Matthew
Mark
Luke
John and the Johnanine letters
Paul’s letters from prison
Romans
Isaiah
Revelation
Genesis
Exodus
Women of the Old Testament
Women of the New Testament
Psalms
and I know I have probably forgotten some.
Yes, Christ died on the Cross for us, but even in today’s Gospel, the thief on one side of Christ rejects and reviles him, while the other thief scolds him and asks Jesus to remember him when he comes into his Kingdom.
Because the Good Thief, did his part (and we all have to do our part) he was instantly forgiven by Christ.
Now — what are you going to do to feed the hungry and poor at Thanksgiving? Or will you reject Christ’s law to “love one another” and do nothing.
Once again — WE ALL have to do our part.
And, please, do not ever say that Catholics do not read the Bile. Have you ever noticed the Daily and Sunday Readings that I post? I bet Catholics just might read more than most non-Catholics!!
I did forget some:
Acts of the Apostles was the first book we read. In it — the Apostles (Peter as well) receive the Holy Spirit.
Yes Peter denied Christ three times, but he also repented three times. (Or do you ignore that part of the Bible?)
BTW, thank you for defending our country. You page on FR looks like you are a veteran.
“as if the greatest minds of catholicism, i.e. the church fathers, et al, nvr heard any of the ‘arguments’ rehashed liked warmed over stew in GPH’s little mind.”
Yea, damn those church fathers and all their ideas that weren’t invented till the 16th century!
Cyril of Jerusalem on Sola Scriptura:
“Have thou ever in your mind this seal, which for the present has been lightly touched in my discourse, by way of summary, but shall be stated, should the Lord permit, to the best of my power with the proof from the Scriptures. For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell you these things, give not absolute credence, unless thou receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning , but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures.” (Cyril of Jerusalem, Cat. Lecture 4, Ch. 17)
John Chrysostom on Sola Fide
“By what law? Of works? Nay, but by the law of faith. See he calls the faith also a law delighting to keep to the names, and so allay the seeming novelty. But what is the law of faith? It is, being saved by grace. Here he shows God’s power, in that He has not only saved, but has even justified, and led them to boasting, and this too without needing works, but looking for faith only.” (Homily 7 on Romans III)
“For this is [the righteousness] of God when we are justified not by works, (in which case it were necessary that not a spot even should be found,) but by grace, in which case all sin is done away. And this at the same time that it suffers us not to be lifted up, (seeing the whole is the free gift of God,) teaches us also the greatness of that which is given. For that which was before was a righteousness of the Law and of works, but this is the righteousness of God.” (John Chrysostom, Homily 11 on Second Corinthians, 2 Cor 5:21)
Theodoret, Bishop of Syria, on the same:
“The salvation of man depends upon the divine philanthropy alone. For we do not gather it as the wages of our righteousness, but it is the gift of the divine goodness.” (On the 3rd chap, of Zephaniah.)
Clemens Romanus, on the same:
“Whosoever will candidly consider each particular, will recognise the greatness of the gifts which were given by him. For from him have sprung the priests and all the Levites who minister at the altar of God. From him also [was descended] our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. Romans 9:5 From him [arose] kings, princes, and rulers of the race of Judah. Nor are his other tribes in small glory, inasmuch as God had promised, Your seed shall be as the stars of heaven. All these, therefore, were highly honoured, and made great, not for their own sake, or for their own works, or for the righteousness which they wrought, but through the operation of His will. And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.” (Letter to the Corinthians)
Augustine on irresistible grace, final perseverance, limited atonement, and whatever else I missed which he touches on here:
“But of such as these [the Elect] none perishes, because of all that the Father has given Him, He will lose none. John 6:39 Whoever, therefore, is of these does not perish at all; nor was any who perishes ever of these. For which reason it is said, They went out from among us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would certainly have continued with us. John 2:19”. (Augustine, Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints)
“I assert, therefore, that the perseverance by which we persevere in Christ even to the end is the gift of God; and I call that the end by which is finished that life wherein alone there is peril of falling.” (Augustine, On the Perseverance of the Saints)
“And, moreover, who will be so foolish and blasphemous as to say that God cannot change the evil wills of men, whichever, whenever, and wheresoever He chooses, and direct them to what is good? But when He does this He does it of mercy; when He does it not, it is of justice that He does it not for “He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardens.” And when the apostle said this, he was illustrating the grace of God, in connection with which he had just spoken of the twins in the womb of Rebecca, who “being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calls, it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.” And in reference to this matter he quotes another prophetic testimony: “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” But perceiving how what he had said might affect those who could not penetrate by their understanding the depth of this grace: “What shall we say then?” he says: “Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.” For it seems unjust that, in the absence of any merit or demerit, from good or evil works, God should love the one and hate the other. Now, if the apostle had wished us to understand that there were future good works of the one, and evil works of the other, which of course God foreknew, he would never have said, not of works, but, of future works, and in that way would have solved the difficulty, or rather there would then have been no difficulty to solve. As it is, however, after answering, God forbid; that is, God forbid that there should be unrighteousness with God; he goes on to prove that there is no unrighteousness in God’s doing this, and says: “For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.” “ (Augustine, The Enchiridion on Faith, Hope and Love, Chapter 98. Predestination to Eternal Life is Wholly of God’s Free Grace.)
“But that world which God is in Christ reconciling unto Himself, which is saved by Christ, and has all its sins freely pardoned by Christ, has been chosen out of the world that is hostile, condemned, and defiled. For out of that mass, which has all perished in Adam, are formed the vessels of mercy, whereof that world of reconciliation is composed, that is hated by the world which belongeth to the vessels of wrath that are formed out of the same mass and fitted to destruction. Finally, after saying, “If ye were of the world, the world would love its own,” He immediately added, “But because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” And so these men were themselves also of that world, and, that they might no longer be of it, were chosen out of it, through no merit of their own, for no good works of theirs had preceded; and not by nature, which through free-will had become totally corrupted at its source: but gratuitously, that is, of actual grace. For He who chose the world out of the world, effected for Himself, instead of finding, what He should choose: for “there is a remnant saved according to the election of grace. And if by grace,” he adds, “then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.”” (Tractates on the Gospel of John, 15:17-19)
Powerful, ping!
Why is this sad? For decades, we sent missionaries to other countries. Today, the "fruit" of that labor has returned to re-evangelize us. My pastor is from Lebanon. Not only is he a priest, he is also a monk and a missionary. His homilies are all centered on Christ and are relevant to the times in which we live. I thank God for him each and every day. He is a beautiful gift to our community.
I wish they’d make up their minds....
Wonderful post. Sadly, this thread took an unfortunate turn. To paraphrase Bishop Sheen, fallen away Catholics often are the most vocal enemies of the Church.
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