there's a million stories in the naked world...
Posted on 11/24/2013 10:16:03 AM PST by Salvation
there's a million stories in the naked world...
” Please, also keep in mind that if you have abandoned the church and embraced Sola Scriptura”
Cyril of Jerusalem on Sola Scriptura:
“Have thou ever in your mind this seal, which for the present has been lightly touched in my discourse, by way of summary, but shall be stated, should the Lord permit, to the best of my power with the proof from the Scriptures. For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell you these things, give not absolute credence, unless thou receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning , but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures.” (Cyril of Jerusalem, Cat. Lecture 4, Ch. 17)
“Please remember that there was first a church, the church that Jesus founded, before there was a Bible”
Sounds like you are denying the Prophetic and then Apostolic authoriship of the Old and New Testament. Not surprising, considering what your religion puts out about the Bible:
From the Vatican website commentary on just the first few chapters of Genesis. The Bible, according to them, filled with “myths,” written by multiple authors (not actually Moses, etc), contradictions, stories are “imaginative” explanations, non-literal, or legends designed to excuse atrocity committed by Jews.
First, a suggested denial of the authorship of Moses for Genesis:
“This section is chiefly concerned with the creation of man. It is much older than the narrative of Genesis 1:1-2:4a. Here God is depicted as creating man before the rest of his creatures, which are made for man’s sake.”
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/_P4.HTM
“Mythology” placed into the text, as well as alleged error, according to the footnotes:
“[1-4] This is apparently a fragment of an old legend that had borrowed much from ancient mythology. The sacred author incorporates it here, not only in order to account for the prehistoric giants of Palestine, whom the Israelites called the Nephilim, but also to introduce the story of the flood with a moral orientation - the constantly increasing wickedness of mankind.” [6:5- 8:22] The story of the great flood here recorded is a composite narrative based on two separate sources interwoven into an intricate patchwork. To the Yahwist source, with some later editorial additions, are usually assigned Genesis 6:5-8; 7:1-5, 7-10, 12, 16b, 17b, 22-23; 8:2b-3a, 6-12, 13b, 20-22. The other sections come from the “Priestly document.”
” The combination of the two sources produced certain duplications (e.g., Genesis 6:13-22 of the Yahwist source, beside Genesis 7:1-5 of the Priestly source); also certain inconsistencies, such as the number of the various animals taken into the ark ( Genesis 6:19-20; 7:14-15 of the Priestly source, beside Genesis 7:2-3 of the Yahwist source), and the timetable of the flood...
“Both biblical sources go back ultimately to an ancient Mesopotamian story of a great flood, preserved in the eleventh tablet of the Gilgamesh Epic. The latter account, in some respects remarkably similar to the biblical account, is in others very different from it.”
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/_P8.HTM [1-32]
Scripture non-historical, based on “ancient traditions” instead:
“Although this chapter, with its highly schematic form, belongs to the relatively late “Priestly document,” it is based on very ancient traditions... its primary purpose is to bridge the genealogical gap between Adam and Abraham. Adam’s line is traced through Seth, but several names in the series are the same as, or similar to, certain names in Cain’s line. The long lifespans attributed to these ten antediluvian patriarchs have a symbolic rather than a historical value. Babylonian tradition also recorded ten kings with fantastically high ages who reigned successively before the flood.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/_P7.HTM
Myths created to justify atrocities, so claims the footnotes:
“[18-27] This story seems to be a composite of two earlier accounts; in the one, Ham was guilty, whereas, in the other, it was Canaan. One purpose of the story is to justify the Israelites’ enslavement of the Canaanites because of certain indecent sexual practices in the Canaanite religion. Obviously the story offers no justification for enslaving African Negroes, even though Canaan is presented as a “son” of Ham because the land of Canaan belonged to Hamitic Egypt at the time of the Israelite invasion.”
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/_PB.HTM
The tower of babel an “imaginitive” story:
“[1-9] This story, based on traditions about the temple towers or ziggurats of Babylonia, is used by the sacred writer primarily to illustrate man’s increasing wickedness, shown here in his presumptuous effort to create an urban culture apart from God. The secondary motive in the story is to present an imaginative origin of the diversity of the languages among the various peoples inhabiting the earth, as well as an artificial explanation of the name “Babylon.””
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/_PD.HTM
From the Vatican website introduction to Judith:
“Any attempt to read the book directly against the backdrop of Jewish history in relation to the empires of the ancient world is bound to fail. The story was written as a pious reflection on the meaning of the yearly Passover observance. It draws its inspiration from the Exodus narrative (especially Exodus 14:31) and from the texts of Isaiah and the Psalms portraying the special intervention of God for the preservation of Jerusalem. The theme of God’s hand as the agent of this providential activity, reflected of old in the hand of Moses and now in the hand of Judith, is again exemplified at a later time in Jewish synagogue art. God’s hand reaching down from heaven appears as part of the scene at Dura-Europos (before A.D. 256) in paintings of the Exodus, of the sacrifice of Isaac (Gen 22), and of Ezekiel’s valley of dry bones (Eze 37).”
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PCP.HTM
And another, also official Catholic source:
“Judith is a dramatic fictional narrative...” “Because Judith is fiction replete with historical and geographical inaccuracies, it is difficult to date its composition.” (New Jerome Biblical Commentary, Nihil Obstat: Raymond E. Brown, S.S., Joseph A. Fitzmyer, S.J., Roland E. Murphy, O. Carm., Imprimatur: Reverend William J. Kane, Vicar General, Diocese of Washington)
I left Catholicism in part because of the arrogance that I saw rotting the souls of Catholics, and I didn't want it to happen to me. I saw Catholics speaking like you do, about "marks on souls" like slave brands, and using domination terminology to deny the free will of the soul before God and "claim" it for the Church.
I was, and still am, sickened by these ice cold power plays in the name of divine love. I would cut out any part of my soul that would link me to people who would arrogate to themselves the right and power to decide other's relationship to God. What staggering hubris!
Millions of people reject your meddling and clawing dominance claims and dark threats of authentication authority with the righteous rage of souls who know they are already beloved by God. But still you remain utterly clueless to the wreckage you create around you, calling your judgements "love," and castigating those who flee your grasp.
Get thee behind me.
-— . What staggering hubris!
Millions of people reject your meddling and clawing dominance claims and dark threats of authentication authority with the righteous rage of souls who know they are already beloved by God. But still you remain utterly clueless to the wreckage you create around you, calling your judgements “love,” and castigating those who flee your grasp.
Get thee behind me.
Are you sure it’s the Catholics with the “staggering hubris”?
I can't add anything to those words, Talisker, but can comment that baptizing an infant or indoctrinating a youth don't prepare anyone for standing before the Throne. Sprinkling an infant isn't baptism. God is a Spirit! For reference:
John 3: 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.
10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. ...
John 4: 24... God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
You cut out the entire paragraph for which that statement is the conclusion, and then include the following paragraph deliberately, calculatedly out of context - and then you ask that question?
Oh yeah, I'm sure.
You DO love to argue.
Do you know what makes an idol an idol?
It is also a way to justify their own actions. Sort of the: See I must be right since I have convinced others to do the same thing, attitude.
I know that when I made the mistake of leaving I made the same arguments as some of the prots here.
I was fortunate to have a wife that kept praying to St. Monica (mother of Augustine) and a brother in law with the time, fortitude, and intellectual capacity to counter those inane arguments.
Thank you for this post. Post like this really put things in perspective.
Do yourslef and others a big favor go to your favorite search engine and type in (pedophile, your favorite religion) or (sex abuse, your favorite religion) and find out the truth for yourself.
Worship is a particular kind of talk
And look at the false sense of security derived from this so called baptism...
“After that wedding took place the Vatican labeled Jackie O a ‘public sinner’.
Yet she was not excommunicated for marrying a divorced man . That being the case, -She could still receive the Sacraments while married to Ari. They changed their doctrine just for her and her money.
Thanks for a specific example of how the double standard existed then and even now. You may have viewed this link?
Frankly, I could care less what anyone does, it’s their life and their decision(s). I do have a problem with the way the Catholic Church cow-towes to the social elite, then claims to be Christ Like. That is not the right thing to say to it’s Parishioners. This example pales to nothing-ness if you ever lifted up the Rug of the Vatican. (i.e.) Child Abuse, etc. If you love the Catholic church then go there........just don’t preach equality when you don’t walk the talk.
Do you fell that way about the Catholics on FR?
You can’t put all Catholics in one bucket.
How would you like it if we said all non Catholics were _________________ (fill in the blank with a negative adjective.)
Have you ever read the facts in the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
Otherwise, I doubt you would say such things.
Nothing of the sort. That quote was to prove that Jesus was there at the beginning of time with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
Peter explained what happens at baptism when he said, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38). But he did not restrict this teaching to adults. He added, “For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him” (2:39). We also read: “Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22:16). These commands are universal, not restricted to adults. Further, these commands make clear the necessary connection between baptism and salvation, a
connection explicitly stated in 1 Peter 3:21: “Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:
Prayer and Christian life are inseparable (CCC 2745). And, Prayer is a vital necessity (CCC 2744).
Mother Teresa has said, "Every time we need to make a decision concerning our families, we need to pray. Jesus said, 'Ask and you will receive. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened.' Nothing will be denied you. "
I really liked hearing a certain priest's homily yesterday on prayer. In it he identified five forms of prayer:
1) Thanksgiving - Giving God the thanks He deserves. We were created and redeemed by Him yet He continues to bless us and love us. God is deserving of all respect, yet this type of prayer is the least common one. What would happen if you one day you couldn't give thanks to God? What would happen if you suffered from a horrible condition and could no longer give God thanks? Remember to thank Your One God for His unexplainable love and blessings. The greatest expression of thanksgiving should be after one receives the Eucharist.
2) Petition - This is probably the most common type of prayer. We bring our requests before God for ourselves, our family, or our friends. At Mass petitions are read, but petitions can be said anytime or anywhere. Prayer doesn't have to be limited to one place. Some people do not believe in attending the Holy Mass. They say "God is everywhere". Yes, but He is everywhere in different ways. God is truly present in the Eucharist - the most real presence of Our Lord on this earth. While we can pray anywhere the greatest prayers are those before the Eucharist, where the veil between Heaven and earth is at its thinnest.
3) Persevering Prayer - These are the prayers for the deepest intentions of our heart. If we pray night and day for this intention then this is persevering prayer. Job persevered in his prayers as illustrated in the Old Testament. I will go as far to say that all presevering prayers are answered as our Lord said, "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you" (Matthew 7:7)
4) Intersession - These prayers are very similar to those of petition, but there is a distinct difference. In prayers of intercession we are asking praying for others. These are the one type of prayer that includes the saints. We can ask these servants of God already in Heaven to pray for us just as we ask our friends on earth to pray for us.
5) Meditative prayer - This is the most simple of prayers. In these we don't say anything. We simply meditate on God's love and mercy. These prayers are very common in those quiet moments of Eucharistic Adoration. Just being one with Our Lord is the greatest gift.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.