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To: metmom
"OK, Scripture interprets Scripture..."

OK!...

...if, by that "OK," you're saying you see how Scripture effectively disproves the idea that we are literally not to call any man on earth "father." If that's what you means, then, thank you. We do have that in common.. and in common with St. Paul, St. Stephen and St. John.

But rather than follow up on the other 6 major issues you referenced in the next 6 lines --- I want to address this part,

"Why when Catholics want to call their priests *Father* do they insist on *Scripture interprets Scripture* and when non-Catholics do it with some other sacred cow of the Catholics, it's called YOPIOS and not valid?"

... because I think this shows some misunderstandng of the YOPIOS: Your Own Personal (or Private) Interpretation of Scripture.

YOPIOS, as I understand it, does not mean that an opinion is not valid, nor that it is non-Catholic, no that it is false. It just means it is an individual's opinion.

Catholics can and do practice YOPIOS --- personal opinionating --- all the time. I may have more YOPIOS (MOPIOS?) than most, because I may be more opinionated than the average Catholic. Any given pope can have opinions that are YOPIOS --- as did all of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, to some greater or lesser extent.

By using the term "YOPIOS," one is not distinguishing between Catholic and non-Catholic, but between ecclesial and individual.

Many non-Catholic Christians have points doctrine affirmed by, say, the early Ecumenical Councils (e.g. they still believe in the Incarnation and the Trinity) or follow practices originating in the early centuries of the Church (e.g. they still worship on Sundays, or they affirm the Apostles' Creed). Even if they do not make explicit reference to Councils or to early Church practices as their rationale, but only offer proof-texts,I would not call this YOPIOS, because they are in fact ecclesial rather than individual interpretations.

To be fair, I think that even doctrines and practices deriving from Protestant statements of faith, like the Lutheran Book of Concord, the Thirty Nine Articles of Anglicanism, the Baptist Faith and Message, and so forth, should not be called YOPIOS, because they are not individualistic: they owe something to the view that the Holy Spirit is leading the Church (and not just themselves as singularly enlightened individuals).

In other words, I'd venture to say that within most Churches, you can distinguish between an ecclesial doctrine and YOPIOS.

But that's just my opinion :o)

.

Oh, by the way, (real question, no snark) could you tell me if there is any Christian church which teaches officially (as part of its doctrine) that it is literally a sin to call any man on earth "father"?

62 posted on 11/25/2013 11:14:50 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (???)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; metmom

>> Oh, by the way, (real question, no snark) could you tell me if there is any Christian church which teaches officially (as part of its doctrine) that it is literally a sin to call any man on earth “father”? <<

.
I am abundantly confident that you understand that Yeshua was condemning Nicolaitanism, not telling his sheep that they couldn’t call their birth father ‘father.’


72 posted on 11/25/2013 8:03:35 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
YOPIOS, as I understand it, does not mean that an opinion is not valid, nor that it is non-Catholic, no that it is false. It just means it is an individual's opinion.

You are far more gracious than most Catholics, then.

Problem I see here, and it's not just Catholicism that engages in this, but in this case it primarily is.

Here is a clearly stated comment, indeed command, by Jesus, and all I see is people explaining why we DON'T have to obey it.

Problem is, this comes from a denomination which elevates (according to adherents of said denomination) that the words of Jesus are taken at a higher level of..... seriousness, I suppose one could say, that the words of anyone else.

And what do I see all over this thread?

Catholics defending why to NOT do what Jesus so clearly commanded. And the argument I've seen used most is the *everybody else is doing it* one.

Oh, by the way, (real question, no snark) could you tell me if there is any Christian church which teaches officially (as part of its doctrine) that it is literally a sin to call any man on earth "father"?

Can't say that I've seen it, but generally it's understood that disobeying a command of Christ's is sin. It seems to be redundant, not to mention a waste of time and paper, to print out all the separate instances of Jesus commanding something when we have Scripture there for all to read.

As far as other denominations deciding that that is a sin. Since they don't do it, I don't see the point of going to the trouble of commanding people not to do something they already don't do.

It's too much works based and legalism. Might as well add it to the *Don't drink, smoke, cuss, or chew and don't go out with girls who do.*

Living by a list of rules and regs may make life predictable and comfortable, but doesn't lend itself in the least to internal personal holiness. Why should Baptists, for example, bother to list as a sin something another denomination does?

73 posted on 11/25/2013 8:19:51 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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