Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: CynicalBear; smvoice; daniel1212; presently no screen name; Iscool; metmom; roamer_1
That’s why we see all the apostles and even Paul when talking to Jews or Gentile converts to Judaism used the word repent which meant to “change their mind” about what they needed to believe. When speaking to Gentiles they didn’t have to “repent” or change their mind about how to please God. They simply had to believe.

Did that all make sense to you? It sure spoke volumes to me. I don’t know when the word “repent” came to mean “turn from sin” or “be sorry for sin” because it’s not what they meant back then.

The Jews (Hebrews) of the time of the Gospels and Acts fully understood what belief and faith meant. They knew of Abraham in Genesis quite well and called him their "father" when they debated with Jesus Christ. So this is the understanding of a Jew at the time on faith and belief:

Genesis 15:

6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

We see the same verse quoted in several places in the NT as well. The Jews understood that. The Israelites of the OT knew belief and faith in God and what it meant quite well. Upon the Exodus Yahweh showed them signs and wonders to include Him directly delivering them from death and bondage. They saw it first hand and they believed. So they fully understood faith and belief.

Your point was that Gentiles did not have to repent, change their minds but just believe. That is not what the Scriptures tells us OT and NT:

Jeremiah 25:

sent to you all His servants the prophets, rising early and sending them, but you have not listened nor inclined your ear to hear. 5 They said, ‘Repent now everyone of his evil way and his evil doings, and dwell in the land that the Lord has given to you and your fathers forever and ever. 6 Do not go after other gods to serve them and worship them, and do not provoke Me to anger with the works of your hands; and I will not harm you.’

Zechariah 1:

2 “The Lord has been very angry with your fathers. 3 Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord of hosts: “Return to Me,” says the Lord of hosts, “and I will return to you,” says the Lord of hosts. 4 “Do not be like your fathers, to whom the former prophets preached, saying, ‘Thus says the Lord of hosts: “Turn now from your evil ways and your evil deeds.”’ But they did not hear nor heed Me,” says the Lord.

And in Ezekiel 33 there is this:

10 “Therefore you, O son of man, say to the house of Israel: ‘Thus you say, “If our transgressions and our sins lie upon us, and we pine away in them, how can we then live?”’ 11 Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’

Then here is Ezekiel 18:

30 “Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways,” says the Lord God. “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!”

So for the Jews of the 1st century ministry of Jesus Christ and early church, a "turning from" a "change of mind" a "repenting" was directly and clearly linked to sin, transgressions against God and wickedness.

By your comments above you state the Gentiles did not have to "repent" "change their minds" "turn from" because they were not under the Law. You linked the Jew's disbelief in God as what they needed to "change their minds." However, the Gentiles did not believe the One True God at all. They did not know Jesus Christ. So they would have to change their minds and therefore believe. So we see in the NT all must repent Jew and Greek (Gentile)

This is what the NT says about repentance:

Luke 24: “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things. 49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

Here in Acts 11 where Peter recounts the Acts 10 Cornelius conversion:

13 And he told us how he had seen an angel standing in his house, who said to him, ‘Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, 14 who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.’ 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?”

18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”

So Cornelius and his household, Gentiles no less, recieved, were granted the same "repentance to life." Another term for the same Gosple Jesus gives in Luke 24 (as posted above).

Then here in Acts 17 we have Paul addressing a Gentile Greek pure audience at the Areopagus saying this about repenting:

Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 “God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

Clearly Gentiles, clearly told God "commands all men everywhere to repent."

Then Paul again in Acts 20:

17 From Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called for the elders of the church. 18 And when they had come to him, he said to them: “You know, from the first day that I came to Asia, in what manner I always lived among you, 19 serving the Lord with all humility, with many tears and trials which happened to me by the plotting of the Jews; 20 how I kept back nothing that was helpful, but proclaimed it to you, and taught you publicly and from house to house, 21 testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Then again Paul in Acts 26 discusses his earthly ministry and says that he was obedient to his Heavenly vision which included this:

19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

There is quite a flow from the OT to this very point in Acts. Today we would call that a definite trend. However it continues here are some more:

Romans 2:4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?

2 Corinthians 7:9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.

2 Corinthians 7:10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.

2 Timothy 2:25 Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God

Hebrews 6:6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Revelation 2:5 Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

Revelation 2:16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Revelation 2:21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling.

Revelation 2:22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways.

Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Revelation 3:19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.

Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk.

Revelation 9:21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Revelation 16:9 They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him.

Revelation 16:11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

Absolutely no where do we see unrepentant hearts are saved. No where, anywhere in all of the Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation. It is God's calling and His Grace that leads the sinner to repentance.

458 posted on 11/29/2013 11:00:30 AM PST by redleghunter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 439 | View Replies ]


To: redleghunter; smvoice; daniel1212; presently no screen name; Iscool; metmom
>> The Jews (Hebrews) of the time of the Gospels and Acts fully understood what belief and faith meant.<<

Did they have dietary rules? Did they need to be circumcised? Could they eat with Gentiles? Was there a universal change from that after the council at Jerusalem? If there was, which there was, was that a “different gospel then being preached prior to that council?

461 posted on 11/29/2013 11:38:31 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 458 | View Replies ]

To: redleghunter; smvoice; daniel1212; presently no screen name; Iscool; metmom
Luke 24:47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

“Beginning at Jerusalem. And you know that “repentence” i.e. change of mind from not hitting the mark of Jeweism’s rules” didn’t apply to the Jews and “remission of sins” by grace didn’t apply to both Jews and Gentiles how?

>> Here in Acts 11 where Peter recounts the Acts 10 Cornelius conversion:<<

I covered that in my previous post. Peter obviously still thought with a Jewish mind.

>> Then here in Acts 17 we have Paul addressing a Gentile Greek pure audience at the Areopagus saying this about repenting:<<

“a Gentile Greek pure audience”? Well, let’s see.

Acts 17: Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: 2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, 3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ. 4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

So let’s recap. Paul went into the synagogue of the Jews and there were “devout Greeks” in that synagogue of the Jews. You do realize that the Greeks would NOT have been in that synagogue of the Jews unless they had converted to Judaism right? “Gentile Greek pure audience indeed”. NOT. Those people in that synagogue of the Jews were all of the Jewish religion thus under their rules and laws.

>> Then Paul again in Acts 20:<<

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Repentance for the Jews and faith for both Jews and Gentiles?

>> Acts 26

Covered in my previous post. Addressing a Jewish audience because of Jewish accusations.

>> Romans 2:4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?

Let’s look at who Paul was talking to there.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

These were people who had “knew God” and had not “retained God”. The needed to “change their mind” or repent. In fact in verse 21 he says “Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God”

>> 2 Corinthians 7:9<<

Once again, read the previous chapters that lead up to that. He was talking to believers who had become “unequally yoked together with unbelievers”. They needed to “change their minds” or repent from practices and beliefs that they had that he hadn’t taught.

>> 2 Corinthians 12:21<<

One more time. Talking to those same Corinthians.

>>2 Timothy 2:25<<

Speaking about a group that was taking on the wrong practices again.

>>Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,<<

What were those “dead works”? Following some rules again? Maybe even Jewish rules?

>>2 Peter 3:9<<

Who was Peter talking to again? That’s right! The Jewish exiles in other countries.

>>Revelation<<

What did we say about not “rightly dividing” and never understand what is being said in Revelation?

463 posted on 11/29/2013 12:45:04 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 458 | View Replies ]

To: redleghunter; smvoice; daniel1212; presently no screen name; Iscool; metmom
>>Absolutely no where do we see unrepentant hearts are saved. No where, anywhere in all of the Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation.<<

Where in the story of Cornelius was repentance prior to him receiving the Holy Spirit? Not what Peter said in Jerusalem because he injected that at that point.

464 posted on 11/29/2013 12:51:31 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 458 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson