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To: CynicalBear; daniel1212
Paul was the one who taught that salvation was strictly through grace by the faith of and in Christ. Any outward actions by man was the result of that salvation rather than any idea that it was precipitated by those actions.

I agree Paul wrote his epistles very clear, very logically and very convincingly. As I said he was a master of theology. But you can still find the same exact truth in Peter's and John's epistles. I have noticed, in particular, Peter uses almost a chapter worth of words to impress on people; where Paul takes a few verses. John on the other hand seems to be addressing mature Christians. His epistles are focused on "walking the talking."

No doubt Paul is the thorn in Rome's side. Because Paul explains everything clearly and methodically. That is why when we point out Peter and John say the same essential elements of salvation, the Roman argument retreats and takes comfort in tradition.

276 posted on 11/26/2013 11:51:43 AM PST by redleghunter
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To: redleghunter; daniel1212; smvoice
>> But you can still find the same exact truth in Peter's and John's epistles.

Not without injecting Paul’s teaching into them as I see what is happening. Yes, many can seem to extrapolate from the other epistles what Paul teaches that isn’t what is said in those epistles. It’s only by man’s attempts can it be said that they are both saying the same thing. Try reading all the other epistles while trying to ignore what you know Paul wrote and see if you come to the same conclusion. Not sure that’s possible but each time you think it’s the same as Paul is teaching question whether that is exactly what Peter and the others are really saying.

277 posted on 11/26/2013 12:04:43 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: redleghunter; CynicalBear; daniel1212
I agree Paul wrote his epistles very clear, very logically and very convincingly. As I said he was a master of theology. But you can still find the same exact truth in Peter's and John's epistles. I have noticed, in particular, Peter uses almost a chapter worth of words to impress on people; where Paul takes a few verses. John on the other hand seems to be addressing mature Christians. His epistles are focused on "walking the talking."

The thing with Paul is his extraordinary attention toward living beyond the law. Not without the law, but rather beyond it.

Perhaps the best way to explain him is in this analogy:

We are all under the law of the United States Constitution. That law is there to protect citizens, but by and large, all law is written FOR criminals - The reason we have laws against murder and rape is because there are criminals and the law provides authority to prosecute those criminals in the protection of the citizen.

Paul writes mile after mile about how a citizen is not affected by the law, because the citizen is *not* a criminal. While some of us (myself for sure) have tasted justice delivered against us by the law of the United States, for the most part, we enjoy the laws because we are good citizens - They benefit us because we live according to their standard, and we are not cursed by them because we are not criminals.

Because we have been given clemency, does that mean we are free to break the law? Of course not! But by being good citizens, given another chance, by abiding in the law, we establish the justice of it! Being found capable of flying right once granted mercy! Therein one lives 'beyond' the law.

If one sees difference in the principles laid down by Yeshua, Peter, Paul, John, etc. one must needfully be interpreting things wrongly... and it is time for another look:

The Torah is forever.
Yeshua cannot have changed (add to or taken from) the Torah.
Yeshua said to do and teach the Torah.
The disciples cannot change (add to or take from) the words of their Master.

With those principle things established, interpretation becomes very limited.

284 posted on 11/26/2013 1:58:35 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: redleghunter
I agree Paul wrote his epistles very clear, very logically and very convincingly. ...No doubt Paul is the thorn in Rome's side.

But you did about 51 Biblical Proofs Of A Pauline Papacy And Ephesian Primacy(!)

300 posted on 11/26/2013 4:01:32 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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