It seems you take this to mean license where the rest of the law is concerned...
No, that is the whole law...If we love God and love our neighbor, we will have fulfilled the whole law...Unfortunately, none of us has ever committed to that law 100% of the time...Because our flesh is weak...
It is not a matter of license, it's a matter of liberty...And again, it's not a matter of the law, it's a matter of love...
Under the Torah we HAD to keep the law...Under the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we WANT to keep the law...
It is not that we have license but when we fail, and we all do, we have an advocate with the Father...Our sin is not counted against us...Jesus however will give us a quick kick in the hind end from time to time...
Can we sin willfully and still be a Christian??? Yes...We ALL do whether we will admit it or not...
How do you justify that against this:
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
This is some heavy stuff...
One might notice that there isn't a Christian within the context...It is Jesus teaching Jews... I believe since the context is the Kingdom of Heaven, it is speaking of the Kingdom that was offered to the Jewish audience right there who were under the law but ultimately rejected Jesus as the Messiah...
Prophetically, it applies to the Millennial reign of Jesus Christ on Earth...AFTER the Rapture of the church...The church is gone, the Wedding has taken place and those in the Kingdom with it's Head in Jerusalem are those who come out of the Great Tribulation, who, again, will be under Faith and works/the law...
As the scriptures here show, they will again be under the authority of the Torah...And during that thousand year reign, every jot and tittle of the law will be fulfilled, literally...
As for vs. 20, my righteousness as a Christian does exceed that of the scribes and pharisees because I have the righteousness of Jesus who fulfilled the law...But that's a scary thought for those going thru the Tribulation...
But wouldn't the first evidence of having obtained that Spirit be a tendency to keep the laws of YHWH? After all, He has said the law is 'written on our hearts'... The natural tendency (what is in the heart overfloweth) would be to keep the law... to WANT to keep the law...
Exactly...
TRUE. But John says we know we love the Father (and our brothers) when we are walking in His commandments... So one can determine the quality of one's walk according to how closely one is following the Torah, no? How then does one disregard the Torah completely and claim to love the Father? It cannot be so.
I dont' think any Christians disregard the Torah...That where we learned what sin was amongst many other things...It's just that we are not under the penalty of the law when we fail...
With that I agee...Catholics sin so little they have only to go to confession once a year...Can you imagine??? Taking the Ten Commandments out of our schools was one of the worst things that could happen to Christianity...What should be black and white is now a shade of gray...
Folks are quick to haul out 2Tim 3:16 when they are verse-slinging, while failing to understand that the scripture defined therein was only the Tanakh, as the NT had not yet been written.
While that historically can be true, I believe it can and should be applied to all scripture since I believe the bible was not written for those only back in the first Century and before...
There is plenty of scripture written yet for the future...
Folks are quick to point out sin, without understanding that it must be the Torah that defines sin. Folks are quick to say they want to please YHWH, without admitting that it is the Torah that teaches one HOW to please YHWH.
I agree with that completely...The Torah was our schoolmaster...
This is absolutely and perfectly correct! But then, wouldn't it be correct to assume that one can gauge one's walk with Messiah by how closely one is conformed to Him, and thus by how closely we conform to the Torah, which is what YHWH has wanted for us all along, and what Yeshua came to show us by example?
It is not that we have license but when we fail, and we all do, we have an advocate with the Father...Our sin is not counted against us...Jesus however will give us a quick kick in the hind end from time to time...
Can we sin willfully and still be a Christian??? Yes...We ALL do whether we will admit it or not...
Sure, which is why one needs something to meter with... to measure by... How does one know he is being obedient to his master? We are all bought with a price - how do we serve, and how do we know we are doing a proper job? John can tell you....
One might notice that there isn't a Christian within the context...It is Jesus teaching Jews... I believe since the context is the Kingdom of Heaven, it is speaking of the Kingdom that was offered to the Jewish audience right there who were under the law but ultimately rejected Jesus as the Messiah...
I would submit your own discipleship should stand in the way of that statement. There is no more Jew or Greek... No male or female ... No slave and master... We are all bought with a price, and we are all in service to the Master, who purchased us. In that, the words written in red are direct instruction. What He said and did is to be emulated and enacted by those who follow Him. His example is paramount.
Prophetically, it applies to the Millennial reign of Jesus Christ on Earth...AFTER the Rapture of the church...The church is gone, the Wedding has taken place and those in the Kingdom with it's Head in Jerusalem are those who come out of the Great Tribulation, who, again, will be under Faith and works/the law... As the scriptures here show, they will again be under the authority of the Torah...And during that thousand year reign, every jot and tittle of the law will be fulfilled, literally...
Doesn't it seem odd that the Torah, revealed from the beginning of Creation, should suddenly be set aside and then brought back again? Does the Master desire a lawless bride? Surely not! His bride will honor Him in obedience, and keep the laws of His Father's House, even as He does Himself! A wife obeys her husband because she loves Him.
And the passage we are looking at (Mat 5:17...) directly speaks against your statement - Yeshua plainly says that every Jot and tittle is in place until heaven and earth pass away, and all is fulfilled. Are heaven and earth still here? YES. Is all fulfilled? NO.
Furthermore, We reign and judge with Him, right? We are with Him always after the rapture, yes? Where is He then? Taking back the earth and establishing the Kingdom How can it be that we (who don't have the first clue about the law) are the ones who help establish Torah in the whole earth?
Who is it that Yeshua condemns for practicing lawlessness (torah-lessness)? Those who cast out demons in His name? By what standard is He judging?
Do you see that the mechanism of it cannot work with the logic applied by most of Christendom?
As for vs. 20, my righteousness as a Christian does exceed that of the scribes and pharisees because I have the righteousness of Jesus who fulfilled the law...But that's a scary thought for those going thru the Tribulation...
"I don't have to keep the Law cuz my Jesus did it for me!" No offense, brother, but that ain't gonna cut it. The Master said to do and teach the Torah. Whether you are slave, disciple, or wife, obedience is the calling. He kept the law in order to be eligible to take our hit - but that doesn't mean we don't have to try.
I dont' think any Christians disregard the Torah...That where we learned what sin was amongst many other things...It's just that we are not under the penalty of the law when we fail...
Well, that wasn't my experience until about a decade ago... and in my ongoing experience, I would submit that most Christians I come in contact with are absolutely ignorant of the Torah. Nobody lives it, nobody knows it. Keep an open mind and keep reading the RF in that light. You will find very little argued from the Torah, ever.
With that I agree...Catholics sin so little they have only to go to confession once a year...Can you imagine??? Taking the Ten Commandments out of our schools was one of the worst things that could happen to Christianity...What should be black and white is now a shade of gray...
Think of that the other way around... the BIG 10 are great, but think of what we would be if the whole Torah were observed like we used to observe the BIG 10... Because like the BIG 10 are the elaboration of the BIG 2, the rest of Torah is the elaboration of the BIG 10...
While that historically can be true, I believe it can and should be applied to all scripture since I believe the bible was not written for those only back in the first Century and before... There is plenty of scripture written yet for the future...
I am not saying the NT is not inspired, but I am saying it's definitions, norms, and references all derive from the Torah, as they must. By the very nature of the thing, everything has to be passed through the Torah. That severely limits interpretation, and interpretation is why there is disagreement.