“Your conclusion does not follow your premise. Having no more apostles like those of the 1st century with such overt attestation would not equate to cessation of any gifts, as an apostle is an office,”
Perhaps it’s because I’ve spent too long with Pentecostals that I cannot shake off the old way of thinking, which makes my arguments hard to understand on this matter. I am not arguing that any miracles have ceased. I affirm that a person could be raised from the dead within the next few minutes because a Christian prayed and God answered. My argument is, however, that certain offices and the gifts given to those offices have ceased, or at least the way in which they are given, so that a person might, perhaps, pray for a healing, but does not have the “office” of being a healer. There is a tremendous distinction between how Christians operate today and how they operated during the Apostolic age, which I think is lost on most Charismatics and even MacArthur himself.
If God sends out ‘first Apostles, then Prophets, then teachers, then gifts of miracles,” etc, we can affirm that at the very least the very first “office” that is given, that of Apostles, has ceased. In the same way, we can say (though I admit, without support,) that Prophets have ceased, and healers and tongue-speakers, though God might still heal, and give a man a tongue, or give a vision, perhaps to some Muslim somewhere in order to convert him. But these miracles are not done in the same way they were done during the Apostolic age, with no one actually operating in the “office” of any of these, and able to perform them at will, or even without his “will” knowing, like healing with a shadow. Nor are any even guaranteed to occur for those who ask of them, since God, quite clearly, has ceased many of them, or at least performs them rarely, and asks us to live by faith and not by sight. And not because of Christian apostasy (there has never been an age where there has not been apostasy, as far as I can tell, nor an age where there has never been a faithful elect of God in the midst of them), but because, for whatever reason, He has seen fit not to give them anymore.
I admit the scripture does not support a strict cessationism, but it also does not allow for ALL these offices to still be in effect, and given freely to the church.
I understand, but we must try to judge in the light of Scripture despite from negative experiences because of aberrations. Would you be comfortable in the 1Cor. 14 meeting if done as per Paul's rules?
My argument is, however, that certain offices and the gifts given to those offices have ceased,
I see only you arguing that one office ceased, that of the apostles, which is one of the formal position offices listed in Eph. 4:11 of itself and which they occupied other offices listed there, but the "sign" gifts of 1Cor. 12:4-11 are not tied to that office, but empower those who do what Rm. 12:6-8 speaks of.
But these miracles are not done in the same way they were done during the Apostolic age, with no one actually operating in the “office” of any of these, and able to perform them at will, or even without his “will” knowing, like healing with a shadow.
Again, since no one in the NT was made alive by touching the bones of a dead prophet, or made iron to swim, or since none of the apostles made a man to see by applying a mud patch made with holy saliva, then you could argue those gifts ceased as well.
Nor are any even guaranteed to occur for those who ask of them, since God, quite clearly, has ceased many of them, or at least performs them rarely, and asks us to live by faith and not by sight.
Nothing was ever guaranteed to occur for those who ask of them, thus Paul's petition was denied thrice. And the relatively rare occurrence of real miracles today can be explained as being due to the state of the church, and the hardened hearts today.
I admit the scripture does not support a strict cessationism, but it also does not allow for ALL these offices to still be in effect, and given freely to the church.
Rather, the only formal office that i see you disallowing is that of apostle and prophet, while the offices of evangelists; pastors and teachers (Eph. 4:11) continue, and i cannot disallow prophesy despite the many wannebees, nor of the rest of the giftings which empower ministering, teaching, exhortation, administration, and shewing mercy. (Romans 12:6-8)
And i think if we were in Africa and other places you would see far more evidence of God supernaturally working in confirming His word, (Mk. 16:20) and combating the devil. Which is needed more today. If we do not seek this then we have a different idea of the church of the living - and loving - God than that of the book of Acts.