You have still not convinced me. I get what you are trying to say with your analogy, but it is not a good analogy.
*Objectively* speaking if I reject something/anything I can not be worshipping them at the same time. Rejecting and worshipping are opposites. I may *think* I am doing so, but in reality I am not.
Listen, I am a Jewish convert to the Catholic Faith. The issue of the Jews and who they worship means a lot more to me than the average Catholic on this forum. It is obviously a sensitive topic for me. When I was Jewish, did I think I was worshipping the Father? OF course! Was I? Not if I rejected Jesus who explicitly stated that I was also rejecting His Father. At the same time, no I was not praying to a pagan god, of course. But I was not worshipping the Father either.
I’m not sure where the *false gods* idea comes in to be quite honest. I also wonder whether what was written in the OP article about what was in the SSPX “literature” was even accurate. Given that there is a general anti-SSPX slant to most articles out there (as well as most Catholics in this forum), it wouldn’t surprise me if it was misquoted.
To me, it’s probably more of the same: “SSPXer’s show their anti-Semitic colors again!” Because you can’t possibly be against Jewish worship in a Catholic cathedral without hating the Jews! /sarcasm
I do appreciate your honesty though about where you stand on the shouts of “anti-Semitism!” I can at least have an honest discussion with someone who at least recognizes that this isn’t about how much a group of people hate the Jews and more about the new religion found in the Church post Vatican II.
At the same time, no I was not praying to a pagan god, of course. But I was not worshipping the Father either.
Okay, I see where you are coming from, though I would probably use a different wording as I think this is imprecise and can lead to multiple interpretations requiring a lot of explaining about what is really intended. I will expand on this immediately below.
I’m not sure where the *false gods* idea comes in to be quite honest.
It is from further up the thread, and it was that which I responded to and commented on. There was one comment which spoke specifically to Jews not praying to the same God we do, and this leaves little doubt that it is thought that they pray to a pagan god. Now, I think some people are not catching this directly because they appear to be using "worship" not to mean worship, but rather something much more expansive, like "worship with real honour and so as to gain eternal life and grace from God." This, frankly, just doesn't work when you get down to it, and it is a very incorrect and strange usage of the word. It just doesn't mean that in English, and whether any devotion or act is effective in terms of eternal life is irrelevant so far as what the word worship actually conveys in a sentence. That is why I can say that one person might worship Hindu gods, another money, another fame, and another maybe even himself. In none of these is there any efficacy to the devotions, but they are all worship just the same. Therefore, the sentence "the Jews do not worship the same God as the Christians" is a huge problem. We Christians worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and if the Jews worship a different god, which must be if they don't worship the same God and they most assuredly worship something, then they must be worshiping a false, pagan god. But, of course, that is simply not true, and therefore I have objected to these claims.
I do appreciate your honesty though about where you stand on the shouts of “anti-Semitism!” I can at least have an honest discussion with someone who at least recognizes that this isn’t about how much a group of people hate the Jews and more about the new religion found in the Church post Vatican II.
No, in this I think we are clearly on the same ground. These unfounded charges of anti-semitism against any people who honour tradition (and it really is about anti-traditionalism in the end) is just as offensive to me intellectually as are the charges that Jews pray to pagan gods. I don't like false charges against people. Disagreeing with the Jews is not the same as hatred of them as a people. It is, actually, the opposite. You cannot treat a sick person and not recognize they have an illness, and you cannot help a lost person while denying they are lost. The silly actions and claims of the anti-traditionalists, accusing honest and God fearing Christians of every heinous and calumnious charge they can think of because of their refusal to recognize even the tiniest error in non-Christians of any kind, just demonstrates where their heart is. They see any criticism of the religion of Jews and Muslims as hate-speech, and yet say horribly evil things of their fellow Catholics, on a personal level, every day. I think it is pretty clear where their heart is with that kind of behaviour.
