Posted on 11/13/2013 3:34:41 PM PST by NYer
Ultra-traditionalist Catholics have openly challenged Pope Francis by disrupting one of his favorite events, a ceremony that he and Jewish leaders led in the Metropolitan Cathedral each year to promote religious harmony on the anniversary of the beginning of the Holocaust.
The annual ceremony brings together Catholics, Jews and Protestants to mark Kristallnacht, the Nazi-led mob violence in 1938 when about 1,000 Jewish synagogues were burned and thousands of Jews were forced into concentration camps, launching the genocide that killed 6 million Jews.
A small group disrupted Tuesday night’s ceremony by shouting the rosary and the “Our Father” prayer, and spreading pamphlets saying “followers of false gods must be kept out of the sacred temple.”
Buenos Aires Archbishop Mario Poli, named by Francis to replace him as Argentina’s top church official, appealed for calm as others in the audience rose up to repudiate them, and the protesters were soon escorted out by police.
“Let there be peace. Shalom,” Poli then said, urging everyone to take their seats for a ceremony that was also led by Rabbi Abraham Skorka, a close friend of the pope who co-wrote a book of dialogue seeking common ground between Judaism and Catholicism.
“Dear Jewish brothers, please feel at home, because that’s the way Christians want it, despite these signs of intolerance,” Poli said. “Your presence here doesn’t desecrate a temple of God. We will continue in peace this encounter that Pope Francis always promoted, valued and appreciated so much.”
The Rev. Christian Bouchacourt, the South America leader of the Society of Saint Pius X, said Wednesday that the protesters belong to his organization and that they have a right to feel outraged when rabbis preside over a ceremony in a cathedral. “I recognize the authority of the pope, but he is not infallible and in this case, does things we cannot accept,” Bouchacourt said in an interview with Radio La Red.
“This wasn’t a desire to make a rebellion, but to show our love to the Catholic Church, which was made for the Catholic faith,” Bouchacourt added. “A Mass isn’t celebrated in a synagogue, nor in a mosque. The Muslims don’t accept it. In the same way, we who are Catholics cannot accept the presence of another faith in our church.”
The Buenos Aires Herald has this account:
“A group of them attempted to spill their poison on the victims of the Holocaust,” said DAIA Jewish community group head Julio Schlosser, who was present at the meeting. “It’s very dangerous if we do not all publicly condemn acts like these, everyone, Jews, Catholics and Muslims.”
As the incident developed and the Lefebvrists, mainly youths, were insulted for their actions, Father Fernando Giannetti requested they leave in the name of Buenos Aires Archbishop Mario Poli, calling for those in attendance not to submit to “an act of provocation.”
After some minutes of tension, police officials arrived at the Cathedral, although they did not intervene, while Giannetti prayed Saint Francis of Assisi’s Prayer for Peace.
"becoming Catholic is the most Jewish thing a person can do"
Of course. And she also said (from memory): Catholicism is the true Judaism. So why validate the error of rabbinical Judaism?
Is there a question in your post, or would it be OK if I skip it? If you cannot pray to the Crucifix or to a statue of Mary, I don’t really have anything constructive to discuss with you.
The topic, remember, is the appropriateness of interfaith services between Catholics and Jews, or between Catholics and Protestants. Clearly either kind is sheer foolishness.
O senseless Galatians, who hath bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been set forth, crucified among you? (Galatians 3:1)
Read the Holy Gospel every once in a while and you, too, will come to Christ and worship Him.
more inventions? tongues? I'll not ask what that babbling is all about, but will venture to make note that I mentioned no such thing.
All of which I have written of here of late, has been written in common enough [American] English language...
Again--- please try to stick with discussing issues, (or possibly--ideas) rather than discuss or rhetorically 'attack' persons.
Just two questions here: Who demanded the death of Christ? And who performed it?
Speechless, now? You’re having to repeat what I say and that’s it?
“The error of rabbinic Judaism “ and “validate” are two stumbling blocks in your comment. First, whatever error you have in mind ( and there could be many, for Jews do not have an infallibility doctrine). ... Does not matter. They are praying to the same God of Abraham, Isaac , and Jacob as Catholics do (albeit with distinctives in both traditions). This is a far cry from inviting some sort of pagan into church. And for what it’s worth, there is not one significant moral teaching in The New Testament that did not already have precedent or does not have a parallel teaching in Judaism. Judaism is , if you will, a special case for the church because Christianity is a special type of Judaism, however that can be best phrased.
Rabbi Jesus taught from the Jewish scriptures and as you know he said that not one dot or tittle was wrong. Jesus also instructed his followers to respect or follow the preachings or rulings of the other rabbis (even while criticizing some of them for not living up to the standards they taught and even though those rabbis did not accept any divinity claims for persons including of course Jesus). They sat on the seat of Moses , Jesus recognized the authority of their teachings regardless of the other issues. Second point about your note. It does not necessarily “ validate” a guest’s positions or beliefs to extend him hospitality (and as before, a shared prayer is confidently something God will still receive and hear. Especially as Jesus prayed to the same father God that the rabbis do ). Since there is only one true god and since both the church and synagogue pray to Him, there is no chance of any other supposed god getting mixed into a shared prayer. Well, anyway I appreciate your view and hope you will mine. Blessings and thanks.
The issue is: Catholics getting kicked out of a Catholic cathedral for praying the rosary in deference to a rabbi preaching on the altar. I have yet seen what dog you have in this dust-up.
What, you don’t know? The Jews, both the leaders and the common people demanded the crucifixion of Christ and the Roman soldiers performed it. Also, Pilate attempted to defend Christ.
It would be fine to confer with the Jews (every time I use the word as a reference to religion, not ethnicity) in a way that does not include worship, for we do not worship the same. Like I reminded the reader several times, we pray to the Crucifix as the image of God. They don't. Communal worship is thereby impossible; however, if it is watered down to the point that there is no Crucifix, then that is the validation of the precise error of modern (past 2000 years) Judaism.
Very nearly the same applies to the communal worship with the Protestants, as comments coming from them on this thread amply prove.
Both groups should be invited to the Catholic proper worship, which is the Holy Mass, but the intention should be evangelism and not common prayer before there is a conversion.
Jesus Christ instructed his followers to pray as he did ( to the one true Creator God he and his fellow Jews prayed to then and now). Respectfully , but Praying to a crucifix sounds very much akin to Abraham praying to his father’s idols. Or the liberated Jews praying to the golden calf they’d fashioned in Sinai. We do not pray to idols. We pray to God. Blessings
I was just checking to make sure we were on the same page with this. Is God through dealing with those who demanded Christ’s death and those who performed it?
What part of this Gospel do you reject?
I reject no part of that Gospel, naturally, but it never suggests that there is a multitude of "Gods" or "Fathers" of which the Jews worship the wrong one. The question is not that of who honours the Father more or correctly, but rather of whether one worships the one true God or not. I am not arguing that worship of God which rejects the Son is somehow worthy or proper. Nothing of the kind. I am saying that this whole debate which comes up periodically of whether the Jews worship the same God as us is strange. Of course they do. The fact that they do not know him as we do does not mean that they have somehow switched their worship to a different God. They are just wrong about him. It is enough to say so without overstating the case and trying to say that they have invented a new God to worship.
In the context of the horrific antisemitism of the last century, I believe that this ecumenical service was quite appropriate. It marked the 75th anniversary of Kristallnacht. Pope Francis, then Cardinal Bergoglio, was inspired to hold this service every year. The SSPX antisemites were driven by Satan to disrupt it.
Clearly? by what light of darkness does that determination arise from? I ask that rhetorically, for I seek no information or instruction of any kind from you, sir, not one single iota of such --- to address your own question;
This forum is not your singular "lay apostolate" nor am I some raw catechumen, potential recruit/convert to Roman Catholicism either.
From here on out, remember -- any "questions" posed from myself in regards to your own comments here -- will be ever and always rhetorical in form, posed to spur thought -- not discussion.
But if you have any serious questions yourself as to what true Christianity is comprised of -- don't hesitate to ask. I'm here to help.
What part of of not making it personal do you not understand?
I need not justify my self to you for anything.
This is not some private Romanist web domain which you are logged on to, regardless of how many RadTrad Romanists work day and night to "take over" the religion forum here on FreeRepublic.
This other sentence;
for reason of using; "...in deference to a Rabbi..."
is nearly unintelligible -- but I think I know what you intended. Deference to SSPX RadTradCat attitudes towards the Romish church ecclesiastical community (which they are interestingly enough, presently otherwise rather 'sideways' with), but as "to" the Rabbi, one or more of the antonyms [found at above, embedded link].
From Phil Lawler, at CatholicCulture.org;
Let me make three requests:First, if you disrupt services at a Catholic cathedral, please don’t try to tell me that you’re defending the Catholic faith.
Second, if you shout out the Rosary to drown out prayers, please don’t tell me you’re honoring the Virgin Mary.
Third, if you refer to observant Jews as “followers of false gods,” please don’t tell me that you worship the God of Abraham and Isaac.
Oh, wait; one more request:
If you don’t think that the SSPX is in schism, please tell me how to describe a group that claims its own hierarchy, professes its own doctrine, rejects the official teachings of Catholicism, and describes itself as the one true church.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Faithful Catholics Oppose "Interfaith" Desecration in Argentina
Edit: is there some reason why these sorts of events have to take place in sacred spaces when they could easily take place outside of the confines of Catholic churches. Catholic laymen with any integrity and courage are bound to do something. The group was led by the traditionalist Society of Saint Pius X.
Unbelievable and unplanned though it was, when the Buddhists lined up in the sanctuary to begin, the event coordinator, mistaking Fr. McMahon for the pastor, requested him to say a few words, to which Father graciously complied!
“I’d like to welcome you all to the basilica this evening ... I have a pamphlet that I found in the pews –I guess the basilica is undergoing some restoration project–and it says, ‘Restore the glory of the basilica.’ That is what we are here to do tonight... shame on the Catholic men who have allowed this thing to happen here. I apologize if this not what you came to hear tonight, but we are going to do here what the basilica was made for, and that is to pray Catholic prayers...”
Much to the bewilderment of the Buddhists and their assistants, Father then proceeded to kneel down and intone in Gregorian chant, Credo III, which was followed by all 15 Mysteries of the Rosary, ...
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