Posted on 10/27/2013 5:25:55 AM PDT by NYer
There are 38 questions + a few bonus questions. I have split them into two separate posts of 20 and 18 + bonus questions. In case you missed it, here is the link to Part 1. Are you ready?
21. Who in the Church had the authority to determine which books belonged in the New Testament canon and to make this decision binding on all Christians? If nobody has this authority, then can I remove or add books to the canon on my own authority?
22. Why do Protestant scholars recognize the early Church councils at Hippo and Carthage as the first instances in which the New Testament canon was officially ratified, but ignore the fact that those same councils ratified the Old Testament canon used by the Catholic Church today but abandoned by Protestants at the Reformation?
23. Why do Protestants follow postapostolic Jewish decisions on the boundaries of the Old Testament canon, rather than the decision of the Church founded by Jesus Christ?
24. How were the bishops at Hippo and Carthage able to determine the correct canon of Scripture, in spite of the fact that they believed all the distinctively Catholic doctrines such as the apostolic succession of bishops, the sacrifice of the Mass, Christ’s Real Presence in the Eucharist, baptismal regeneration, etc?
25. If Christianity is a “book religion,” how did it flourish during the first 1500 years of Church history when the vast majority of people were illiterate?
26. How could the Apostle Thomas establish the church in India that survives to this day (and is now in communion with the Catholic Church) without leaving them with one word of New Testament Scripture?
27. If sola Scriptura is so solid and biblically based, why has there never been a full treatise written in its defense since the phrase was coined in the Reformation?
28. If Jesus intended for Christianity to be exclusively a “religion of the book,” why did He wait 1400 years before showing somebody how to build a printing press?
29. If the early Church believed in sola Scriptura, why do the creeds of the early Church always say “we believe in the Holy Catholic Church,” and not “we believe in Holy Scripture”?
30. If the Bible is as clear as Martin Luther claimed, why was he the first one to interpret it the way he did and why was he frustrated at the end of his life that “there are now as many doctrines as there are heads”?
31. The time interval between the Resurrection and the establishment of the New Testament canon in AD 382 is roughly the same as the interval between the arrival of the Mayflower in America and the present day. Therefore, since the early Christians had no defined New Testament for almost four hundred years, how did they practice sola Scriptura?
32. If the Bible is the only foundation and basis of Christian truth, why does the Bible itself say that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15)?
33. Jesus said that the unity of Christians would be objective evidence to the world that He had been sent by God (John 17:20-23). How can the world see an invisible "unity" that exists only in the hearts of believers?
34. If the unity of Christians was meant to convince the world that Jesus was sent by God, what does the ever-increasing fragmentation of Protestantism say to the world?
35. Hebrews 13:17 says, "Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you." What is the expiration date of this verse? When did it become okay not only to disobey the Church's leaders, but to rebel against them and set up rival churches?
36. The Koran explicitly claims divine inspiration, but the New Testament books do not. How do you know that the New Testament books are nevertheless inspired, but the Koran is not?
37. How does a Protestant know for sure what God thinks about moral issues such as abortion, masturbation, contraceptives, eugenics, euthanasia, etc.?
38. What is one to believe when one Protestant says infants should be baptized (e.g., Luther and Calvin) and another says it is wrong and unbiblical (e.g., Baptists and Evangelicals)?
Where does the Bible . . .
. . . say God created the world/universe out of nothing?
. . . say salvation is attainable through faith alone?
. . . tell us how we know that the revelation of Jesus Christ ended with the death of the last Apostle?
. . . provide a list of the canonical books of the Old Testament?
. . . provide a list of the canonical books of the New Testament?
. . . explain the doctrine of the Trinity, or even use the word “Trinity”?
. . . tell us the name of the “beloved disciple”?
. . . inform us of the names of the authors of the Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John?
. . . who wrote the Book of Acts?
. . . tell us the Holy Spirit is one of the three Persons of the Trinity?
. . . .tell us Jesus Christ was both fully God and fully man from the moment of conception (e.g. how do we know His Divinity wasn't infused later in His life?) and/or tells us Jesus Christ is One Person with two complete natures, human and Divine and not some other combination of the two natures (i.e., one or both being less than complete)?
. . . that the church should, or someday would be divided into competing and disagreeing denominations?
. . . that Protestants can have an invisible unity when Jesus expected a visible unity to be seen by the world (see John 17)?
. . . tell us Jesus Christ is of the same substance of Divinity as God the Father?
-— What Paul called “tradition” was all recorded in the ancient scriptures. It was the worship and culture of Mt. Sinai. -—
That’s not what Luther’s Bible, the Catholic Bible, or the Orthodox Bible says:
“So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.” —St. Paul
Yeshua’s first miracle was a deliberate insult to the Pharisees: soiling their hand washing pots with ‘unclean’ water and turning it to wine.
The “Eucharist” is pagan foolishness.
Everything they passed on was recorded somewhere.
The word of mouth was to the few that were illiterate.
Yeshua rebuked tradition soundly.
What is the insecure agenda? You have hinted...
I'll stack my understanding of Revelation up against yours any day. Perhaps those in your camp should be the ones worried the most about the "time of Jacob's trouble".
However, I'm not interested in wasting any more time with you on yet another disagreement. You have already demonstrated an inability to fairly and honestly consider someone else's viewpoint if it is in opposition to your own. I want to devote my time to things that edify rather than cause dissension, arguing and disputings. We have every right and cause to trust the Word of God that He has provided for us and anything that calls its trustworthiness into question should be resoundingly answered. That's what you have been receiving here...count it all joy.
-— I’ll stack my understanding of Revelation up against yours any day. ——
Is this how your Bible instructs you to settle disputes?
“If he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector.” -—Jesus
Jesus could have said, “if he will not read Scripture,” or “if he will not listen to ME.” No, Jesus gave His Church His teaching authority.
Another out of context verse. The previous verses are quite illuminating.
—— Everything they passed on was recorded somewhere.——
Is that in the Bible? Regardless, who was walking around with all the rolls of the Old Testament?
-— The word of mouth was to the few that were illiterate. ——
Few? How many Bibles were the early Christians printing up? There wasn’t much of anything to read back then. Most eerything was passed on orally.
-—Yeshua rebuked tradition soundly.-—
Man-made, erroneous tradition, sure. But not true Tradition or authority.
Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you.
“He who hears you, hears me, and he who rejects you, rejects me.” — Jesus
***
“So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ”
“[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also”
“For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures. . . . Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed”
"Settling disputes" by involving ones local church leaders was a remedy Jesus advised for a man who was at personal odds with a brother - NOT talking about doctrinal issues (though that is how Roman Catholicism has conveniently interpreted it). Paul also advised the same process for when a fellow believer is found in grave sin with the person going to the offender first to be followed by two or three others and, only when that doesn't bring about correction in behavior - taking him before the local church leadership for discipline that could include denying fellowship to him, but still loving him in an effort to help him recognize his fault and be restored to the fellowship.
On a forum like this, where people come to discuss issues and their viewpoints about theological points, appealing to the authority of the Roman Catholic Church's magesterium - because we all know that was the point for bringing this up - doesn't apply. Your church has never attempted to publish any kind of official commentary on the book of Revelation anyway so why would that do anyone any good to do so here? Jesus gave us sacred Scripture so that we COULD know what was truth versus error and the Holy Spirit within illuminates that truth to those hearts who are diligently seeking to know it. The authority Jesus gave us IS in Scripture - it is the rule of the faith and He will lead us into all truth. Even your magesterium must be subject to that authority.
Protestantism burning Germany to the ground? Sources and links?
And wrong about Catholic countries bringing Christianity to SA and Africa. They brought Catholicism to those places.
If the original Hebrew texts are gone missing, then there’s NO WAY to know what they said and some special, enlightened group’s opinion of what they could possibly have said is certainly not worth any more than any other group’s opinion of what they might have said.
And speculating on what the Hebrew might have originally said is a waste of time because there’s no way of verifying it. So then we’re left with NOTHING.
All I see in that argument is Satan’s further efforts to impugn the Word of God.
Did God REALLY say....?
(No, He didn’t. You’re missing out on some secret knowledge that God doesn’t want you to know about, but come to us and we’ll tell you)
No thanks.....
“And how many names are there in the Hebrew for God?”
Here’s a partial list of names of God just from the Psalms and Isaiah.
God’s name is whatever our need is because He alone is the one who fulfills that need.
-Psalms 7:10-11 – God, who saves the upright in heart. God is a righteous judge,
and a God who feels indignation every day.
-Psalms 7:17 - the Lord, the Most High
-Psalms 9:9 - a stronghold for the oppressed, a stronghold in times of trouble
-Psalms 10:14 - helper of the fatherless
-Psalms 11:7 - the Lord is righteous
-Psalms 16:5 - The Lord is my chosen portion and my cup
-Psalms 16:7 - the Lord who gives me counsel
-Psalms 17:7 - O Savior of those who seek refuge from their adversaries at your right hand
-Psalms 18:2 - my rock, my fortress, my deliverer, my God is my rock in whom I take refuge,
my shield, the horn of my salvation, my stronghold
-Psalms 18:18 - my support
-Psalm 18:28 - you who light my lamp; the Lord my God lightens my darkness
-Psalms 18:46 - God my savior
-Psalms 18:47-48 - God who gave me vengeance and subdued peoples under me,
who delivered me from my enemies
-Psalms 22:19 - O you my help
-Psalms 23:1 – my shepherd
-Psalms 24:8 - Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
-Psalms 27:1 - the my light and my salvation, the stronghold of my life
-Psalms 28:1 - LORD my rock
-Psalms 28:8 – the strength of his people, the saving refuge of his anointed (a fortress of salvation NIV)
-Psalms 29:3 - God of glory
-Psalms 31:5 - faithful God
-Psalms 33:15 - he who forms the hearts of all
-Psalms 32:7 - a hiding place
-Psalms 40:17 - my help and my deliverer
-Psalms 43:2 - God my stronghold
-Psalms 46:1 - our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble
-Psalms 47:2 - the LORD Most High, the great King over all the earth
-Psalms 54:4 - God is my helper; the Lord is the upholder of my life
-Psalms 59:11 - LORD our shield
-Psalms 59:16 - my refuge in the day of my distress
-Psalms 59:17 - my strength
-Psalms 62:7 - He is my rock and my salvation; He is my defense...
-Psalms 65:2 - you who hear prayer
-Psalms 68:5 - Father of the fatherless and protector of widows
-Psalms 71:5 - my hope, my trust
-Psalms 71:22 - Holy One of Israel
-Psalms 73:26 - the strength of my heart and my portion forever
-Psalms 76:11 - him who is to be feared
-Psalms 80:1 - God of my salvation - Shepherd of Israel
-Psalms 81:1 - God our strength
-Psalms 90:1 - our dwelling place
-Psalms 94:22 - my stronghold, ... the rock of my refuge
-Psalms 95:1 - the rock of our salvation
-Psalms 95:3 - a great God, and a great King above all gods
-Psalms 95:6 - the LORD our Maker
-Psalms 99:8 - a forgiving God
-Psalms 103:8 - the LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love
-Psalms 111:4 – the LORD is gracious and merciful
-Psalms 115:15 - the Maker of heaven and earth
-Psalms 119:57 – the LORD is my portion
-Psalms 121:5 – the LORD is your keeper,... your shade on your right hand
-Psalms 129:4 – righteous
-Psalms 132:5 – the Mighty One of Jacob
-Psalms 135:3 – the LORD is good
-Psalms 135:5 – the LORD is great,...our LORD is above all gods
-Psalms 140:7 - the strength of my salvation
-Psalms 142:5 – my refuge, my portion in the land of the living
-Psalms 144:2 - my steadfast love, my fortress, my stronghold, my deliverer, my shield
-Psalms 145:13 – faithful, kind
-Ecclesiastes 11:5 - God who makes everything
-Isaiah 25:4 - a stronghold to the poor, a stronghold to the needy in his distress,
a shelter from the storm, and a shade from the heat
-Isaiah 26:4 - the Lord God is an everlasting rock
-Isaiah 28:2 - mighty and strong
-Isaiah 28:5-6 - a crown of glory, and a diadem of beauty, a spirit of justice to him who sits in
judgment, and strength to those who turn back the battle at the gate
-Isaiah 28:29 - wonderful in counsel and excellent in wisdom
-Isaiah 29:23 - the Holy One of Jacob,... the God of Israel
-Isaiah 30:18 - the Lord is a God of justice
-Isaiah 33:22 - our judge,... our lawgiver; ...our king
-Isaiah 37:16 - God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth
-Isaiah 40:22-23 - He who sits above the circle of the earth, ...who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in; who brings princes to nothing, and makes the rulers of the earth as emptiness.
-Isaiah 40:26 – He who brings out their host by number, calling them all by name, by the greatness of his might, and because he is strong in power not one is missing.
-Isaiah 40:28 – The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth.
-Isaiah 41:4 - I, the LORD, the first; and with the last; I am he.
-Isaiah 41:14 - I am the one who helps you, declares the Lord; your Redeemer is the Holy One of
Israel.
-Isaiah 41:21 – the King of Jacob
-Isaiah 42:5 - the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it, and spirit to those who walk in it
-Isaiah 42:8 - I am the Lord; that is my name;
-Isaiah 42:13 - a mighty man,...a man of war
-Isaiah 43:1 – he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel:
-Isaiah 43:3 - I am the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior
-Isaiah 43:14 - the Lord, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel
-Isaiah 43:15 - the Lord, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King
-Isaiah 43:25 - I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake
-Isaiah 44:2 - the Lord who made you, who formed you from the womb and will help you
-Isaiah 44:6 - the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last;
-Isaiah 44:24-28 - the Lord, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,
25who frustrates the signs of liars and makes fools of diviners, who turns wise men back and makes their knowledge foolish,
26 who confirms the word of his servant and fulfills the counsel of his messengers, who says of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be inhabited,’ and of the cities of Judah, ‘They shall be built, and I will raise up their ruins’;
27 who says to the deep, ‘Be dry; I will dry up your rivers’;
28who says of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd, and he shall fulfill all my purpose’; saying of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be built,’ and of the temple, ‘Your foundation shall be laid.’”
-Isaiah 45:3 - the Lord, the God of Israel, who call you by your name
-Isaiah 45:11 - the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and the one who formed him
-Isaiah 45:18 - the Lord, who created the heavens (he is God!), who formed the earth and made it
(he established it; he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited!)
-Isaiah 45:21 - a righteous God and a Savior
-Isaiah 49:7 - the Redeemer of Israel, the Holy One of Israel
-Isaiah 49:26 - the Lord your Savior, and your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob
-Isaiah 51:12 - he who comforts you
-Isaiah 54:5 - your Maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is his name;
and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called
-Isaiah 54:10 - the Lord, who has compassion on you
-Isaiah 63:16 - our Father, our Redeemer from of old
-Isaiah 64:8 - our potter
-Isaiah 65:16 - God of truth
So just what are those traditions that Paul handed down to the churches to which he wrote?
How do you know what they are, that they are his, and that they have been handed down faithfully?
Please provide sources and links for verification purposes.
Would you please post the Book, Chapter and verse where Jesus said that? Never mind. It wasn’t Jesus who said that while He was on earth and it wasn’t the RCC concept of a “church” that Paul was talking about.
The RCC has taught a total lie as to what the “church” is. The word used in the Greek text of the New Testament is “assembly”. Not once is the RCC concept of a “church” ever mentioned. There were local assemblies of believers. That was the assembly that was to control itself and decide who they would allow to participate. That lie by the RCC has caused Catholics to misunderstand much of scripture which makes the rest of you questions and comments moot.
Well then it would seem that those that teach we are to call our savior only by one name are not the elect.
Obviously that idea that we are to call our savior only by the name of Jeshua is in error since we are told IN HEBREW that His name is to be called Immanuel.
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
That was a direct command by Yhvh as to what to name Him. In the Hebrew language no less. Why do you teach to disobey God’s command to call Him Immanuel?
Please show your proof that “word of mouth” and “by letter” were two different teachings.
That’s exactly what it is and those who promote such efforts should take heed.
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