Posted on 10/13/2013 12:01:40 PM PDT by matthewrobertolson
Expounding on the importance of our actions for salvation is, I suppose, my primary “thing.” I have been in so many informal debates over the issue that I have started to lose count of them. I have written about the topic many times. And often, I become angry (like God in 1 Kings 11:9-10) at the mere thought of sola fide (“faith alone”), because I know that it is completely contrary to “what the Lord [has] commanded.” But why?
“Faith alone” was, without a doubt, the primary reason that I left Protestantism. Even though I was ill-educated in theology at the time, I knew that it was illogical.
I like to think of sola fide in terms of criminal law. Imagine that someone went before a judge and was proven guilty of heinous crimes, but then pleaded to the judge that he believed in the judge's authority to convict him and so the judge should not do so – and had that as his only defense. Should the judge convict him – to any degree – or should the judge completely let him off, and then give him a reward?
Do you find the “faith alone” argument compelling in such an instance? I do not. Of course, a “faith alone”-r would say that there is some sort of significant difference between such a scenario in terms of temporal law and such a scenario in terms of eternal law, but there really is not. Protestant arguments for the belief simply do not stand in the face of such scenarios or substantial scrutiny.
I strongly believe that sola fide is at the heart of many Western problems. Self-professed Christians have used it as an excuse to not care for the disadvantaged, to engage in profane sexual activity, etc. – the list goes on and on.
Martin Luther told his followers to “sin and sin boldly” (among other things, as I have documented) because he taught that we are saved solely by our faith in the power of Jesus Christ, apart from our actions. This method of thinking has been adopted by millions of Protestants since his time. But is it supported by the Bible? No. See Hebrews 10:26-27:
“For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.”
“Faith alone” has had a terrible impact on society. People often now shy away from discussing religion or morality with others, fearing conflict. Take, for example, something that transpired between a Lutheran family member and me. After I privately and politely informed her that she had committed a grievous sin (like we are called to do – see Matthew 18:15-17, Galatians 6:1, and Ephesians 4:15), she immediately jumped to the “Who are you to judge?” defense and paired it with the “Jesus paid the price” line. I am sure that, for many Catholics, such occurrences are unfortunately familiar.
God has written in our hearts (Romans 2:15) that we should serve Him and others, not our selfish desires -- and we will be punished if we defy Him. The necessity of both good works and abstinence from grave sin gives our lives concrete meaning. If someone takes away the eternal significance of our actions, they rob us of any real purpose: we all just become random, faceless, unimportant beings.
Sola fide does not work either logically or practically; it fails on all counts. Now, you know why I hate it.
(All verses are from the NASB translation.)
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LOL! You’ve got to be kidding me, FRiend!
No way I’m going to wade through all of that.
That’s the purpose of this forum — for you to advance a position and then defend it.
>>Here<<
Not on your blog.
You can’t give me a succinct argument right here? I provided such for *you*...
I’m not sure your point other than saying you “hate” sola fide.
Thank you for your constructive comments.
Dominus vobiscum (”The Lord be with you”).
I don’t care if you hate it-I LOVE by Grace through Faith alone!~ The Bible preaches this, and I was saved by it, so I will ~never~ try to save myself by works..they happen after one believes, as the Holy Spirit works in one’s life!
I will always believe what the Bible says and not man’s opinion.
heh... great minds think alike, although yours is thirty seconds more supple than mine.
Shall we judge the Judge?
God forbid! I can only have faith in His merciful progative.
The root of all sin is the treasonous peeping denial against God the honor of His Divinity, who is blessed forever Amen.
God has given all of us a seed to seek and find salvation. It is upon every individual to find it. They may refuse for a time. He has risen and proved the hereafter. If not, show me the body of Christ. You cannot. We are not the judged. Christ is.
There. A minor change fixes it so it's actually true. :-)
I look forward to meeting this Hillaire Belloc character! After he (she?) gets over the shock of seeing this quite imperfect Methodist up there in Catholic heaven, we'll have all eternity to discuss his essays and why he (she?) thought those things while living in the flesh.
If one is truly saved,
The Holy Spirit is within,
It is not possible to Persistently deny It's Work within us
That might be construed as
“Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit”
The ONLY Unforgivable Sin
I believe that the MOST IMPORTANT THING is
our Living in Christ, that the discussion on Faith/Works is
Subservient to THE ONE THING.
if the Faith/Works issue is a stumbling block,
it can be safely superseded by
Mark 12:30-31 AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' 31"The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these
The richer irony is that a self-described atheist such as yourself routinely shows up on threads that involve religious discussions, when as an atheist you'd have painfully little to contribute to the discussion to begin with.
Maybe you'd like to consider adding "An atheist" to your tag line "An Australian" just as a matter of full disclosure, so folks on religious discussion threads readily recognize from the start that whatever you think you have to add to the discussion has nothing in common with those who actually hold to their faith.
If nothing else at least you'd appear to be less of an imposter.
FReegards!
Here, watch: since you posted links I will post one with the simple message of the Gospel.
I am sure can’t disagree:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_a6meI0WkY
The title of this article rouses up Christians who hold to salvation by grace through faith.
While the Bible calls Christians to lovingly correct each other, it also admonishes Christians to not stir up contentious arguments amongst the faithful.
Titus 3
“1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.”
2 Timothy 3
“1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their’s also was.
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”
I Corinthians 14:37: If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
I Thessalonians 4:2: For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
Faith alone in Christ is FULL and COMPLETE justification for our salvation: Gal. 2:16 and 3:26. Inside Gal. 3:26, God reckons, counts us, all as children of God by faith in Christ.
Galatians 2:16: Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 3:26: For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Since God reckons us all as children of God by faith in Christ, it cannot get any simpler than that Scripture.
Now if we consider the Word of God, we must consider all these as the Words of God (I Cor. 14:37, I Thess 4:2, Gal. 2:16 and 3:26) which were DIRECTLY REVEALED to our Apostle Paul to write unto you regarding for today the new commandments of the Lord Jesus Christ (I Cor. 14:37, I Thess 4:2). Failing to receive these commandments from the Lord Jesus Christ and to recognize that the epistles have grace commandments from the Lord Jesus Christ, will be turn out to destruction, exactly what Peter wrote about people or religious organization that reject these things -
II Peter 3:15: And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
II Peter 3:16: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
If someone fights against these, as Peter so revealed, then they also fight against God and His Words in the entire Bible, but especially in God's epistles - which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
True. You shall also love one another.
That is the greatest command ever afforded our humble life.
God never said be unhappy. He wants everyone to know he is there and waiting. Our world is here to enjoy and not be fighting.
God never commanded to be a sitting duck for evil either.
Satan does reside here.
Give that which belongs to Caesar, and that which belongs to the Lord.
AMEN
Why can’t you just explain it to me?
I am a Protestant by birth and upbringing. I have recently discovered that I am a Pentecostal Protestant. My faith is not just in Jesus Christ, it is faith in the vicarious atonement by the Son of God who voluntarily allowed himself to be tortured to death on our behalf. This satisfied and finished the rebellion started by Adam. Adam separated us from God, God sent his own Son to give us the way back. We don’t have to accept (believe) it, but I have chosen to.
I am allowing myself to accept this gift. The Law still applies. With the connection to God restored for me through Jesus’ final incarnate act, I am MORE able to abide by law and LESS liable to sin than before.
Sola Lex with no faith and acceptance of Jesus’ sacrifice is eventually futile.
well said
>> Why can’t you just explain it to me?
Because just explaining it here doesn’t get blog hits, and blog hits can be exchanged for valuable “works” tokens that count towards salvation!
;-)
““Faith alone” was, without a doubt, the primary reason that I left Protestantism. Even though I was ill-educated in theology at the time, I knew that it was illogical.”
This is an illogical statement on its face. If your theological understanding comes from ignorance then it is best of you don’t comment.
And p.s. in case you hadn’t noticed YOU are not god, hence being angry ‘like God’ is a meaningless statement
Actually, the only place Scripture uses the words faith alone is where Scripture DENIES IT!
“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” James 2:24
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