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To: what's up

Here’s a few relevant Bible verses taken from Bible Gateway.


1.Genesis 9:16
And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

2.Genesis 17:7
And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

3.Genesis 17:13
He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

4.Genesis 17:19
And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

5.Leviticus 24:8
Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the Lord continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.

6.Numbers 25:13
And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

7.2 Samuel 23:5
Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

8.1 Chronicles 16:17
And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,

9.Psalm 105:10
And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

10.Isaiah 24:5
The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

11.Isaiah 55:3
Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

12.Isaiah 61:8
For I the Lord love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

13.Jeremiah 32:40
And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

14.Ezekiel 16:60
Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant.

15.Ezekiel 37:26
Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.


Notice that none of these passages say that the everlasting covenant with the Jews will end when the Messiah comes.

Yes, correct, no one can come to the Father without the grace provided by Jesus; but that grace can be given to virtuous pagans and religious Jews without their conscious knowledge. And, yes, Jesus invited the Jews to join His Church; but He did not force anyone to do so, and he continues to extend His grace to those whom He chooses.

We see at the Transfiguration that several Old Testament figures are in Heaven, although they did not know Jesus in this life.

Obviously this is a complex matter, not to be settled in a few words. But it is simply wrong to put limits on what God can do to save those whom he chooses.


34 posted on 10/07/2013 7:13:30 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero; what's up

“Notice that none of these passages say that the everlasting covenant with the Jews will end when the Messiah comes.”


Clue time:

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.”
(Jer 31:31-33)

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The Old Covenant was fulfilled through Jesus Christ, who fulfilled all righteousness through His perfect life and, finally, His death on the cross, making reconciliation for many.

The Old Testament system of sacrifices (which Jews don’t do anyway) and all the other Old Testament laws do not save, and cannot save, since salvation is through Christ only.

You would know this, if you took the time to engage the scriptures I have already presented.


40 posted on 10/07/2013 7:31:09 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (If anyone tells you it's a cookbook, don't believe them.)
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To: Cicero
But Jesus turning to them, said: Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not over me; but weep for yourselves, and for your children. Luke 23:28
46 posted on 10/07/2013 7:44:01 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: Cicero
2.Genesis 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

And who is the seed to whom the promise is made? Paul in Galatians says it is Christ. Galatians 3:19.

The Old Covenant cannot work because man is not able to keep his part of the bargain. The promises are fulfilled only in Christ under the New Covenant so only if you are in Christ are you a recipient.

53 posted on 10/07/2013 8:33:16 PM PDT by what's up
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To: Cicero
but that grace can be given to virtuous pagans and religious Jews without their conscious knowledge.

I believe this. However, I do not believe this includes all Jews.

54 posted on 10/07/2013 8:34:52 PM PDT by what's up
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To: Cicero

“44 The next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. 45 But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began to contradict what was spoken by Paul, reviling him. 46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying,

“‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”

Acts 13


61 posted on 10/07/2013 8:55:28 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: Cicero
Second, even if Pope Francis had made a remark against proselytism (we don't know if he did or he didn't), that's not the same as being against evangelization.

What you say is true, HOWEVER, God got pretty angry with those he made the Covenant with...God even became disgusted with the animal sacrifices that were part of the ritual for atonement...

God told the Jews he would send them a Messiah...They looked forward to the Messiah but the Messiah wasn't what they had envisioned...So they rejected him...

Jesus put the blinders on the Jews for that transgression so that they can not get with the church program...Romans 11...

Reading Romans 11 coupled with numerous OT scriptures and some in Revelation it is clear that God is not done with the Jews...

Jesus will again reveal himself to the Jews and they will accept him this time...

When Jesus comes and sits and rules from the throne of David, that old Covenant will come back into play, for about a thousand years...

131 posted on 10/08/2013 3:20:14 PM PDT by Iscool
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