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To: ebb tide
VC II was a pastoral council. No pope has spoken infallibly since prior to 1962. Does that help?

So and unless a teaching is infallible then it can be ignored (parts of encyclicals, bulls, etc.). And there is disagreement as to this and what is infallible Thus you need an infallible list of all infallible teachings.

And according to thee, despite what other RCs say, V2 did not speak infallibly in "clarifying" past infallible teaching (such as EENS). I can see why other RCs hold you to be in schism.

Not that you do not have a case, but in criticizing V2 one TRC site states,

Paul VI, in closing the Council stated that "the teaching authority of the Church, even though not wishing to issue extraordinary dogmatic pronouncements, has made thoroughly known its authoritative teaching." Still later he stated that the Council "avoided proclaiming in an extraordinary manner dogmas endowed with the note of infallibility" but that it conferred on its teachings "the value of the supreme ordinary Magisterium" (Speech of Jan 12, 1966), and that "it has as much authority and far greater importance than the Council of Nicea". Elsewhere he has called it "the greatest of Councils", and "even greater than the Council of Trent."[10]

Perhaps the most clear cut statement is to be found in a letter to Archbishop Lefebvre demanding his submission to the post-Conciliar Church: You have no right any more to bring up the distinction between the doctrinal and the pastoral that you use to support your acceptance of certain texts of Vatican Council II and your rejection of others. It is true that the matters decided in any Council do not all call for an assent of the same quality; only what the Council affirms in its 'definitions' as a truth of faith or as bound up with faith requires the assent of faith. Nevertheless, the rest also form a part of the SOLEMN MAGISTERIUM of the Church, to be trustingly accepted and sincerely put into practice by every Catholic."[11] -http://www.the-pope.com/wvat2tec.html#_ftn10

147 posted on 10/08/2013 5:46:08 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212
So and unless a teaching is infallible then it can be ignored (parts of encyclicals, bulls, etc.)

Quick answer: No; unless they contradict perennial Church teaching. And much of VC II does.

If you are truly interested in Catholicism, please PM me. You are obviously not "invincibly ignorant".

149 posted on 10/08/2013 5:59:45 PM PDT by ebb tide
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